Genesis Research and Education Foundation

[a_haworthroberts]

http://www.genesis.org.uk/
http://www.genesis.org.uk/personnel.html
Is this London-based foundation under the BCSE radar? They may be 'new'. (See also my post at an existing thread just now about Dr David Ellis.)
The list of personnel shows David Ellis again - though he's not described as a geneticist here if it's the same guy. I also recognise the name Adrian Umpleby - he was at Westminster Chapel in the early 1990s, he sometimes led worship (when they were looking for a full-time worship leader) and he married someone named, I think, Janet Long.

PS In fact Janet is one of those in this picture: http://www.genesis.org.uk/events.html
PPS Annoying website - very hard to read the text against a cream background!

Final comment - hand on heart, I'm not sure that they are definitely creationists despite using the word 'Genesis'. Does anyone know (I've emailed a contact who may reply though he's linked to Westminster Chapel today and not anti-creationist)?

[a_haworthroberts]

PS The David Ellis I knew is in THIS photo, just found (which I think could be around 20 years' old, unless he has not aged). http://www.genesis.org.uk/history.html
I presume he is the David Ellis who gave the creationist lecture in 2004.

Not sure whether GREF is fully creationist - YEC or otherwise - though.

PS If you push your screen away from you can read the text against the cream background.

[jon_12091]

Odd website apart from the obvious undefined interest in origins, and one use of 'paradigm', it doesn't seem to contain any of the usual linguistic cues that indicate creationism nor indeed any particular reference to religion. David Ellis clearly has previous - but he and the organisation have very little internet trail.

[a_haworthroberts]

Westminster Chapel is very much part of the creationist/YEC movement in the UK today, such as it is (under Greg Haslam).

But it was not an overtly creationist fundamentalist/evangelical Christian church back in the early 1990s when the Minister was Dr R T Kendall and when the Genesis Research and Education Foundation was apparently set up - and is, presumably, still operating.

If I don't hear back from my contact I might try the GREF email address and ask them outright whether they are YEC/Creationist/ID. They seem to have bases in London and Cambridge.

[a_haworthroberts]

I've just emailed GREF - might get a reply next week.

I'm assuming that the Latin phrase on their website means 'from darkness to light' or something similar.

I also briefly googled Adrian Umpleby. I suspect that he would qualify to join MENSA! As would I suspect David Ellis too.

Another leading light is an Andrew Jackson. But I drew a blank when I googled his name.

And this may - or MAY NOT - be the Paul Burgess in question: http://www.icn.ucl.ac.uk/Staff-Lists/Me ... me=Burgess

[a_haworthroberts]

http://opencharities.org/charities/1081334

GREF state on their website that their research methodology is 'strongly evidence-based' and their educational methodology is 'evidence-based rather than authority-based'.

[Brian Jordan]

http://opencharities.org/charities/1081334

GREF state on their website that their research methodology is 'strongly evidence-based' and their educational methodology is 'evidence-based rather than authority-based'.

Could mean anything - YECs would say that, wouldn't they?
Likewise Genesis Research could mean anything - maybe they're at it now, swatting up their Hebrew and Greek and peering at ancient documents. I wonder what reply you'll get.

[jon_12091]

http://opencharities.org/charities/1081334

GREF state on their website that their research methodology is 'strongly evidence-based' and their educational methodology is 'evidence-based rather than authority-based'.

Could mean anything - YECs would say that, wouldn't they?
Likewise Genesis Research could mean anything - maybe they're at it now, swatting up their Hebrew and Greek and peering at ancient documents. I wonder what reply you'll get.

Usually the first thing you see with a creationist website is a statement saying they are 'upholding the authority of scripture' or some such, especially when its aimed at grassroots supporters.

GREF appear to share their motto with a US ornithological society!

[a_haworthroberts]

Whilst some creationist organisations might try to hide the fact online, I would have thought that they might also want fellow creationists who have no personal knowledge of them to 'cotton on'. So there might be creationist 'clues' planted on the website (the kind of clues the BCSE might also pick up on).

If they are not partly/mainly creationist I would expect them to tell me so, assuming my email will eventually be read.

[a_haworthroberts]

For those who don't already know, of the two people in the photo on the GREF website, the David Ellis I knew (who I am assuming is the same David Ellis who gave a lecture on genetics for Genesis Agendum in 2004) is the one standing up and wearing a white lab coat. Not sure why I didn't make this clear the first time - it's not as though I'm letting slip something confidential. As mentioned, I don't think the photo is recent.

The silence so far from my contact linked to Westminster Chapel (he's a missionary in south America) has started to become quite loud!

[a_haworthroberts]

PS I'm referring to my second post in the thread.

PPS In fact the photo is captioned as 1995.

[Peter Henderson]

PS I'm referring to my second post in the thread.

PPS In fact the photo is captioned as 1995.

The link now appears to be dead Ashley:

The system is down for maintenance as of 22:31 BST.

It'll be back shortly

[a_haworthroberts]

Email sent to the GR&EF around 5 hours' ago (to three key named individuals):
"Please see below*.
If you are what you appear to be, and have not become a 'front' for Young Earth Creationism/Young Earth 'Creation Science', I think that it would be in your interests to confirm to me that that is the case. Would you agree?
When I looked the other day, I think I located a website where the email addresses for the G.R.&E.F. appeared to be linked to (I think) Dr/Professor Jackson who is at a university in either Portsmouth or Southampton. My attempts to relocate that website this evening were unsuccessful however."

* The email message below, sent on the evening of 28 April, read
"Dear Sir/Madam
I was wondering whether you were willing to tell me whether or not GREF is wholly/partly (Young Earth) Creationist/Intelligent Design Christian in its outlook.
I used to attend Westminster Chapel - David Ellis, Adrian Umpleby and Janet Long may recall who I am - though I'm not attending any church these days. I sometimes post at the British Centre for Science Education community forum, though I'm not much of a scientist.
Your website does not look like a typical 'creation science' website but perhaps one from an organisation that is open to 'theistic evolution'. However, I believe that David gave what may have been a genetics lecture that was from a creationist origins perspective back in 2004 - for 'Genesis Agendum'. I also understand that Westminster Chapel has become largely creationist under Greg Haslam.
Thanks for any comments."

[a_haworthroberts]

And ANOTHER email sent just a few minutes' ago:
"http://www.cis.org.uk/resources/links/yecs-links
I have just seen that this page lists you as a 'Christian Anti-YECS Site'. However, and in particular given that David Ellis a worker or adviser for GR&EF once gave a lecture for the creationist (not necessarily Young Earth Creationist) Genesis Agendum, I would be grateful if you could CONFIRM that you definitely are not YEC. And, if not, whether some or all of you are STILL creationists (or Intelligent Design advocates) when it comes to science - rather than 'theistic evolutionists' like eg the Faraday Institute.
A failure to respond will I'm afraid do little to lessen the suspicion that there is MORE to your charitable foundation than meets the eye from studying your website.
I am also copying this new message to Ard Louis - who I believe played a key role in compiling the CIS page linked to above.
Although I post on the BCSE's Community Forum - see here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2631 - I have no formal involvement with them."

[a_haworthroberts]

A few hours' ago I received the following detailed email reply from David Ellis:


"Thank you for your recent e-mail.
Many of the answers you seek can in fact be found on our website.
To reply specifically, at GREF we are not propagating young earth creationism, or intelligent design, or any other ‘ism’ for that matter: everybody has something to learn, we believe. Rather, we provide a friendly forum where people, whether lay persons or professional scientists, can come and work through their ideas and questions about ‘origins’ in the light of the latest orthodox scientific and archaeological data, often aided by first hand examination of specimens from our own museum collection.
With regard to Genesis Agendum, that organisation is in fact open to participation by those of diverse viewpoints. (For example, two previous speakers, whom I know personally, are theistic /agnostic evolutionists.) – My own talk was not about creationism, but about orthodox genetics. (I’m an evolutionary geneticist.) I dealt with common errors lay people hold about genetics, and discussed key information from genetics that every model of origins has to take into account (e.g. gene duplication & pseudogene phylogeny).
With regard to the name of our organisation, as our website explains, ‘Genesis’ comes from a Greek word meaning ‘origin’. It is used scientifically, for example, for the earliest geological eon of the earth (4.56 – 4.51 Ma); and for the NASA spacecraft that investigated the early solar nebula. The name of the biblical book of Genesis does not, of course, refer to ‘the origin of life, the universe, and everything’, as it is often misinterpreted, but rather to ‘the origin of the children of Israel’. Nevertheless, we welcome religious and non-religious people alike to visit us, without discrimination.
Do post this e-mail in full on your BCSE forum thread, but please remove the e-mail address, as we get large quantities of spam to wade through already: thanks!
Best wishes,"