An attempt to deal with a creationist

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An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:19 pm

I have found the Australian creationist John C Heininger to be full of empty hot air, rather lacking in humility, and downright evasive towards myself.

This was my attempt to NAIL him a couple of hours' ago:

"My simple CHALLENGES to John Heininger at the David Levin review thread and at the thread under his own review:

PLEASE will you provide some evidence that you have actually read - and understood - Sarfati's book. Along the lines of "on page x he discusses y, and I agree with him - and disagree with Dawkins - for the following reason(s)".

PLEASE will you confirm whether or not you have read my review of Sarfati's book.

If you HAVE - as your comments at your own 'review' suggest - I am assuming that the following assertion from that review does apply to my review (among others). "Having read Sarfati's book with great care, yet again, after reading all the anti-Sarfati anti creationist subjectively based pro evolutionary GENERATIZATIONS, which turn out to be utterly false (as I will progressively show in future posts), I can assure readers that this book is absolutely brilliant, and no negative review I have read on this posting is objectively sustainable." Assuming this is so, I would again ask that you kindly have the courage and the decency to DEMONSTRATE in detail your sweeping CLAIM with respect to at least some, if not all, of the comments I made in my own review. So far you have completely IGNORED what I consider a perfectly reasonable request. Not to mention your own promise that you would substantiate the particular comments made in your own mini review! All of which does not add to your credibility as a 'reviewer'.

From memory (but the Levin thread is enormous so I cannot easily double check) ALL we seen from you on this website is preaching that historical or origins science is a waste of time because nothing can be proven - so that means that the theories concerned are therefore falsified(!) - but luckily God has told us exactly what happened in Genesis so it doesn't matter after all that science is limited when it comes to investigating the past (what if we hadn't heard from God?). As far as I recall you have never discussed detailed arguments from Sarfati's book and have instead resorted to sweeping and rather repetitive GENERALIZATIONS about how science can only tell us anything useful when we have empirical, observable, repeatable evidence and processes to examine in the present.

Three final questions:
Have you reflected upon your behaviour here?
Are you going to continue to ignore and evade my posts that are directed towards you?
Are you now going to disappear from the website for another couple of weeks, hoping I might forget about what I am asking you here?

Ashley Haworth-Roberts (Mr)"

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2YDNZOVN3 ... 28DX95P1TH
http://www.amazon.com/review/RHBBAKCND3 ... hisHelpful
http://thegodreality.com/darwindelusions.htm

He appears to be an ideologue and not a scientist.
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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:52 pm

The 'God Reality' website does not appear to be overtly Young Earth Creationist.

Yet our 'expert' Heininger gave Sarfati's book a maximum five stars in his uniformative and provocative 'review'.

I have just asked him at Amazon.com to tell us all whether or not he is a YEC rather than an OEC (assuming he knows what being a YEC means of course).
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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby rthearle » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:37 am

a_haworthroberts wrote:I have found the Australian creationist John C Heininger to be full of empty hot air, rather lacking in humility, and downright evasive towards myself.


And that is noteworthy because...?

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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:06 am

I have found the Australian creationist John C Heininger to be unusually full of empty hot air, rather lacking in humility, and downright evasive towards myself.
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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby Michael » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:33 am

Surely that makes him a normal creationist!
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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:55 pm

All attempts to send a contact message via the 'God Reality' website fao John Heininger fail for some unknown reason.

More details of his career - he appears well educated. But not in biology or chemistry or geology! http://thegodreality.com/speakers.htm
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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:28 pm

The thoughts of Heininger on that well-known atheist 'Jean Paul Sarte': http://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2 ... existence/
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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:01 am

I've just emailed John Heininger as follows:


John C Heininger, Director Australian Evangelical Apologetics Society

I would be very grateful if you would view my challenges to you at these two threads, made around 24 hours' ago:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R2YDNZOVN3 ... NXK6Z56TNY
http://www.amazon.com/review/RHBBAKCND3 ... hisHelpful
I refer to the (duplicated) post which begins: "My simple CHALLENGES to John Heininger...".

Mr Ashley Haworth-Roberts
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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:58 pm

I'm trying to organise a seminar for a creationist conference on 'Rebutting Darwinism'.

The title for the seminar is "You don't have to show that it's bad science, you just need to say so!"

Does anyone know of any suitable speakers?!
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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby Yorkie » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:53 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:I'm trying to organise a seminar for a creationist conference on 'Rebutting Darwinism'.

The title for the seminar is "You don't have to show that it's bad science, you just need to say so!"

Does anyone know of any suitable speakers?!

Sounds like a cool seminar, in general what will it be about?
Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.
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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:07 pm

Religious apologetics.
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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby Yorkie » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:09 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:Religious apologetics.

Awesome, I may have to drop by if I can, any info like a date/location etc?
Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.
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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:12 pm

Sometime in 2011. Or possibly 2012. Location unknown.
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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby cathy » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:21 am

More details of his career - he appears well educated. But not in biology or chemistry or geology! http://thegodreality.com/speakers.htm
Hm so he comes to the debate from a background of IT and systems design. Making him supremely qualified to argue with those who've spent years studying evolutionary biology, paleantology etc etc. Asked some folk I know in IT how they felt it had equipped them to take on the role of critques of biology but they seemed to think it a very stupid question. :o

From your Amazon links Ashley he also would appear to be supremely arrogant, in the mould of many creationists.
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Re: An attempt to deal with a creationist

Postby Peter Henderson » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:32 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:I have found the Australian creationist John C Heininger to be unusually full of empty hot air, rather lacking in humility, and downright evasive towards myself.



A bit like poohboy on Premier then :mrgreen:
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