The elephant in the room.

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Re:

Postby Peter Henderson » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:04 am

a_haworthroberts wrote:I typed a figure 8, not a smiley face! Honest.


chapter 8) or chapter 8 ?
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Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:11 am

The latter.

I think either my pc or the BCSE website got 'confused' because I typed 8 followed by ).
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Re: The elephant in the room.

Postby Brian Jordan » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Meanwhile, back to the topic: a tip of a trunk appeared while I was reading around the Islamist assassination threat at Queen Mary College London this week. Commenting on that, Maryam Namazie quotes one "Abu Zubair" (also having a meeting at QMC) as pronouncing
Anybody who mocks Allah or his messenger or anyone or any aspect of religion which is known from the deen [religion], by necessity is a kaffir and a murtad [apostate] and is subject to execution because the prophet said “execute the one who changes his religion”.
The call to evolution is a call to kufr [disbelief] and apostasy from Islam.
Whatever we might say about the Christian creationists, they don't bring pressure like that on people.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2012/01/18/guess-whose-meeting-wasnt-cancelled/
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Re: The elephant in the room.

Postby marcsurtees » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:29 pm

jon_12091 wrote:Please, please, please, stop trying to make God "scientifically provable - its embarrassing and annoying for the rest of the Christians on the forum (Mark 11:22). The only thing you will manage to do is demonstrate that their is no evidence for God. There is no material evidence for God and indeed can never be.


There is a universe of material evidence for God 8)
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Re: The elephant in the room.

Postby Dagsannr » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:40 pm

marcsurtees wrote:There is a universe of material evidence for God 8)


ZOMG! Really?!

Wow, thousands and thousands of years of searching and you've found evidence for god! Share, please!

Seriously, what is your evidence for god? And how does the existence of naturalistic evidence (ie - 'material' evidence) work when we're discussing the supernatural?
There are 2 types of people in the world:

Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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Re: The elephant in the room.

Postby cathy » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:58 pm

There is a universe of material evidence for God
There is a universe of creationists who are evidence that there is NO god.

If there was a God meteorites would have hit the creation museum and burning bushes would be surrounding every creationists house yelling ditch the creationism and stop telling lies. Oh and they would all miraculously develop consciences overnight and start telling the truth. :D Marc you are all the evidence I need to not believe.
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Re: The elephant in the room.

Postby jon_12091 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:37 pm

marcsurtees wrote:
jon_12091 wrote:Please, please, please, stop trying to make God "scientifically provable - its embarrassing and annoying for the rest of the Christians on the forum (Mark 11:22). The only thing you will manage to do is demonstrate that their is no evidence for God. There is no material evidence for God and indeed can never be.


There is a universe of material evidence for God 8)

Are you actually a New Atheist troll?
Last edited by jon_12091 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The elephant in the room.

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:21 pm

Some Christians say that their faith (including YEC faith as appropriate) is strengthened when they face sarcasm.
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Re: The elephant in the room.

Postby jon_12091 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:29 pm

I'm being serious not sarcastic. Who else but a militant atheist would want to pull the concept of 'God' in to the material and testable and ultimately refutable... oh wait, creationists with their hubristic 'if Genesis ain't history then God and Scripture be damned'.
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Re: The elephant in the room.

Postby Dagsannr » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:17 am

a_haworthroberts wrote:Some Christians say that their faith (including YEC faith as appropriate) is strengthened when they face sarcasm.


Some atheists say that they can't help being sarcastic when christians come out with statements crying out for a sarcastic response.
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The elephant revisited

Postby Brian Jordan » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:02 pm

Here's an interesting report on January's Deen Conference on “Have Muslims Misunderstood Evolution?”
http://rationalist.org.uk/articles/4051/islams-evolution-problem
I met someone like this at a recent conference called “Have Muslims Misunderstood Evolution?” organised by the Deen Institute, an organisation that claims to want to “articulate faith, not in spite of, but through scientific inquiry, critical thinking and logical reasoning, reviving intellectuality among modern Muslims.” This young man, a postgraduate biochemist at Imperial College London, told me that he had come to the conference in the hope that he would find a way to reconcile his belief in the teachings of Islam with what he described as “evidence for evolution in everything I do at work”.

He seemed deeply anguished by the fact that evolution by natural selection contradicts the core belief with which he was brought up – that the Qur’an is the literal word of Allah. When I asked him if he might consider the idea that the Qur’an wasn’t a divine document he told me that this was “impossible” for him, that his “life would have no meaning” if the Qur’an was not literally true.
The author, Alom Shaha, goes on to conclude
From what I saw, from at least two of the speakers and many of the attendees, the primary stumbling block for widespread acceptance of the theory of evolution in the Muslim world is the central notion in Islam that the Qur’an is the literal word of God.
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Re: The elephant in the room.

Postby cathy » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:40 am

Not really creationism but Islam has been abusing UCL again by the sounds of it.
www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0313/1 ... ingsupdate

Apparently a muslim group hired a room for a debate between muslims and someone called Leonard Krauss who I've never heard of - so not sure what the debate was about.

The thing is though they thought it was ok to segregate the audience into male/female and couples. Not really creationism but horrendous none the less. Apparently they were stood on the door making sure people did not seat together and men were kept apart. Segregation! In a university :evil: :evil:

Hopefully UCL will check anyone elses plans!!!!!

Poor old UCL this and Paul Garner as a student. The religious nutters seem to be attracted to it in droves.
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Re: The elephant in the room.

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:53 am

"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
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Re: The elephant in the room.

Postby cathy » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:14 pm

Oh quite interesting then and old news :( sorry. However not sure how Richard Dawkins can be so righteous about it given he's a sexist little @@@@ with no real liking for women as equal members of the human race either. Don't think we satisfy his sycophancy needs enough. A tad hypocritical of him or any of his accolytes to comment I'd say until they clean up their own acts.
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Re: The elephant in the room.

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:38 pm

cathy wrote:Oh quite interesting then and old news :( sorry. However not sure how Richard Dawkins can be so righteous about it given he's a sexist little @@@@ with no real liking for women as equal members of the human race either. Don't think we satisfy his sycophancy needs enough. A tad hypocritical of him or any of his accolytes to comment I'd say until they clean up their own acts.
Ah, that discussion has been shifted away from Islamic misogyny in a manner worthy of Tzortzis! Dawkins evidently suffered the delusion of imitating a newspaper or magazine, with sections for all manner and condition of "men". A foolish idea, but I don't believe for a moment he intended to segregate women, any more than he would force car mechanics or gardeners into special pages and those pages only.
BTW: do you think Olivia Benson would have let him get away with it without comment? She's already played hell with whatever twerp removed links to her blog from his blog.
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