Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

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Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:24 pm

Ham has posted this on his blog today, which I presume is a report from McIntosh on a Skeptics in the pub meeting ?

http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs ... Ken+Ham%29


Ministering to Skeptics in the UK
ShareThisPublished on January 15, 2012 in Thoughts and Things.

AiG friend and colleague Dr. Andy McIntosh (who resides in England) sent us the report below of a recent meeting he had with skeptics in England. Like Jesus, he went to reach the skeptics where they meet! Here is a university professor, who is a scientist and has received awards for his work, reaching out to skeptics with the truth of creation and the gospel. Yes, a real award-winning scientist who is a creationist!

Well – quite remarkable! The organisers estimated about 130 packed into the pub room which is right in the centre of Birmingham near Birmingham New St station. About 60 – 70 stood all the way through at the back as there were not enough chairs, and some were lined up outside with the door open. Not a place I would particularly choose! But that’s where the people are and that’s where they have the Skeptics meeting…. And they listened… I said that Atheism has no coherent answer to the science which distinctly points to Design (Romans 1:20 argument), no answer to rationality (where does logical thinking come from – not from molecules and neurons! That’s a more modern version of the argument that Schaeffer and C S Lewis used in their writings), and no answer to human corruption . Christianity properly joins the dots of human experience.

And then came the questions – loads of them. They would have gone on all night if they could….Questions on the science, quantum mechanics, thermodynamics etc etc and one question saying “…so this heaven – what are you going to do all the time?” After the expected smiles, I said when you get married you don’t ask what you are going to do, you just want to ‘be with the person you love’, so Christianity is in essence a relationship with the God of the Universe.

Then one very thoughtful one concerning suffering, where a father spoke of the loss his wife had suffered of an unborn child which had an abnormality – so where is God in this? I used that question to end the evening and rounded up the evening on the sin that has ruined the world – our forefather and ourselves are the cause, but the creator God has amazingly come into the world to take our sins on the Cross.

I offered Prof. Verna Wright’s booklet “The relevance of Christianity in a scientific age” asking them to come to me afterwards, thinking no one would take them in an audience like that – but they all went (15 or so) as person after person came up to have a discussion! None of these from what I could see were close to the Gospel itself – they were all near square one or zero. It was spade work turning over new ground, trying to get these people to see that there was no excuse to deny God’s existence. They were courteous and not rude. Most of them didn’t agree – I expected that, but they found the talk interesting. It was very much like the open air meetings a number of us do in city centres.

A Christian who was at the meeting wrote to me this morning and said “I think that the slight and pedantic nature of the questions that were asked was testimony to the force of your presentation. I thought that one question for me summed up the evening and I really hope that it did not go unnoticed- when the woman at the back started her question with the comment- ‘the first thing I’d like to say is that there is only a physical world and that’s that!’ The philosophical commitment informs the position not the science, and I think you did a great job at exposing and challenging that philosophical commitment. Thank you.”

And to cap it all – another person came up to say that he had become a believer….and he told me how…..through reading Dawkins “The God delusion”! He realised just how lacking in substance the opposition’s arguments really are, and turned to Christ.

I am very grateful for your prayers – please ask that the Lord would use the booklet to lead some of the souls there to Himself.


I wonder if the person who became a believer also converted to YECism ? Why, as a Christian, am I not convinced by McIntosh's claims ?

Do the UK skeptics have any reports on this meeting ?

I'd take anything he or AiG says with a pinch of salt.
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby cathy » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:34 pm

Wish I'd known about that. It would have been really easy to get to and I'd love to have seen McIntosh being questioned. Anyway try here.
www.brumskeptics.blogspot.com

They may have podcasted it or someone may write a blog. Why on Earth they gave him publicity is beyond me.
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:18 pm

Why do I get a feeling that I know who McIntosh's "Designer" was? But no, I can't be right: ID - as promulgated by McIntosh's "Truth" in Science - has nothing to do with religion, has it? I wonder how many people he convinced of that?
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:27 pm

cathy wrote:Wish I'd known about that. It would have been really easy to get to and I'd love to have seen McIntosh being questioned. Anyway try here.
http://www.brumskeptics.blogspot.com

They may have podcasted it or someone may write a blog. Why on Earth they gave him publicity is beyond me.



No reports so far Cathy but thanks for the link anyway:

He is a physicist and a Young Earth Creationist. I find it incredible that he can be both


I thought he was a combustion engineer rather than a Physicist ?

Still, McIntosh appears to have used the old YEC tactic i.e. Young Earth Creationism = Christianity. Evolution (Science ?) = Atheism.
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:30 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:Why do I get a feeling that I know who McIntosh's "Designer" was? But no, I can't be right: ID - as promulgated by McIntosh's "Truth" in Science - has nothing to do with religion, has it? I wonder how many people he convinced of that?


He appears to have convinced at least one person the Earth is a mere 6,000 years old Brian.
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:54 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:He appears to have convinced at least one person the Earth is a mere 6,000 years old Brian.
Not necessarily, Peter. The person said he'd "turned to Christ" after reading Dawkins - he doesn't sound like a card-carrying unbeliever converted on the spot by McIntosh, let alone to YECism. And anyway old Andy is an experienced street and beach preacher as well as a YEC.

He is not, though, a physicist. AFAIK his engineering is largely on the mathematical side, which might have led to some confusion. (Thanks for the link to the interesting blog, Cathy.)
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:01 pm

The person said he'd "turned to Christ" after reading Dawkins


I suppose McIntosh is putting his own spin on things.
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:36 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:
The person said he'd "turned to Christ" after reading Dawkins


I suppose McIntosh is putting his own spin on things.
Ham is.
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby cathy » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:39 pm

I suppose McIntosh is putting his own spin on things.
This is Andy McInstosh reported in Ken Ham for @@@@s sake-of course he is.

There is of course the remote possibility he isn't deluded, but unfortunately Andy McIntosh is a consistent liar, like all creationists. So until you hear from someone with more credibility its impossible to know what actually happened. So hang on till you have a credible source is my advice. Sounds like Brum skeptics need a bcse member to come a speak to them I think-its a nice place to visit.

Wish I'd known it was on :cry:
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Michael » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:23 pm

Michael's First Law of Creationism

Any creationist statement is never true

©MR 1971
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Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:45 pm

Did any of you see this TV debate about the existence of God in Warrington? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b019pmcx

I expect God was watching.
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Re:

Postby Michael » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:06 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:Did any of you see this TV debate about the existence of God in Warrington? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b019pmcx

I expect God was watching.



He knew about it before
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Re:

Postby Steve660 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:02 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:Did any of you see this TV debate about the existence of God in Warrington? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b019pmcx

I expect God was watching.


I live in Warrington. I have never seen God here. Maybe he exists somewhere else?
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Brian Jordan » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:04 pm

I've just posted on the "TiS tries it on" thread, a post which might have gone here since it mentions McIntosh. It might explain how he has time to reach out to the infidels of Birmingham.
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Re: Re:

Postby jon_12091 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:15 pm

Steve660 wrote:I live in Warrington. I have never seen God here. Maybe he exists somewhere else?

May be that says more about Warrington than about God.... Sorry.
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