Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Luke Tyler » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:03 pm

Roger Stanyard wrote:
Luke Tyler wrote:Out of interest, Ashley, have you encountered any YEC forum which doesn't ban people who aren't adherents?


Double ngative there which doesn't make sense - surely you mean " have you encountered any YEC forum which does ban people who are adherents?"

Sorry,
I was asking if Ashley had ever come across a YEC forum which doesn't ban people who disagree with them.

If so, try the blogs of that utter shit David Anderson.


You mean this?
http://mothwo.blogspot.com/
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Michael » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:28 pm

Dr_GS_Hurd wrote:[ Or try and post on CMI's Facebook page.

Sarfarti prompltly removes any non YEC comments, even those from Christians.


Some years back, Sarfati was banned from the Theology Web. He posted under the name "Socrates."[/quote]

I can't think why as he has a sweet nature.
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:47 pm

"You mean this?
http://mothwo.blogspot.com/"

Yes - that's him.
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:55 pm

This fundamentalist Christian prefers pseudo-science to science: http://mothwo.blogspot.com/2011/12/star ... -week.html
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Michael » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:03 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:This fundamentalist Christian prefers pseudo-science to science: http://mothwo.blogspot.com/2011/12/star ... -week.html



He has an M.Math from Oxford. It seems that getting a M Math requires less than getiing an MA
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby psiloiordinary » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:24 pm

He was my gateway drug into creationism.

Scary man.

At the time he was claiming he had a science degree from Oxford.
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:28 pm

Michael wrote:
a_haworthroberts wrote:This fundamentalist Christian prefers pseudo-science to science: http://mothwo.blogspot.com/2011/12/star ... -week.html

He has an M.Math from Oxford. It seems that getting a M Math requires less than getiing an MA
Omphalos. Pathetic. And as Andy McIntosh might have said, Masters maketh not the man.
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:13 pm

Luke Tyler wrote:
You mean this?
http://mothwo.blogspot.com/


Yer, that's the latest blog from the opinionated little shit.

A pal of Andy "Fingers" McIntosh".
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:22 pm

psiloiordinary wrote:He was my gateway drug into creationism.

Scary man.

At the time he was claiming he had a science degree from Oxford.


Yer, IIRC, he tried to claim he had scientific credibility because he did a course in statistics part of which involved working on data from biology.
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby cathy » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:59 pm

Looks like there are some reports of this talk on the brum skieptics website now either here
http://www.brumskeptics.blogspot.com
or here http://www.brumskeptics.blogspot.com/20 ... ok-at.html
Haven't ploughed thru them all yet but one thing I noticed was that his talk was not going to be uploaded onto their podcasts whereas most of them usually are!!! Steve Fullers certainly was
We’re not uploading the talk because the speaker doesn’t want us to and because we don’t want to. We appreciate the work that our speakers put into their talks so if we do video them we’d rather not dilute their future impact by uploading,

I wonder why it was that Feather boy didn't want to be uploaded? It can be purchased for the princely sum of £3 if you attend their Feb meeting or £4 by post.
Anyway I read the first bit where they noted his review.
Our first review came from Andy McIntosh himself via none other than Ken Ham of Answers in Genesis! Surely we’re the first Skeptics in the Pub group to get a review by that particular person

And one of the first things I saw was this
The thing about Professor McIntosh's talk - and I honestly don't say this to mock - is that it felt like watching someone go incrementally insane.
and later on from the same person
really was like watching someone descend into delusion before your eyes. My internal response to the things he was saying followed this sort of path: "OK... Ahhh... Um... Eh...? What...? *What*...? WHAT...? ARGGGHHH!" At the beginning what he's saying at least appears plausibly worth addressing; in the middle he's, for example, telling us that atheists have no response to the arguments CS Lewis puts forward in 'Miracles' (so he's now reached what one might - generously - call 'shaky ground'); by the end it's the kind of stuff that wouldn't fly in a Year 10 classroom debate - I expected at any moment to hear the words 'Pascal's Wager', 'There are more of us than you', and 'Hitler'.

Professor McIntosh seems like a decent chap, he has genuinely-held beliefs, he's laudably keen to engage with those of differing views, and he's no doubt orders of magnitude a better mathematician than I am. Yet as the talk went on his reasoning simply fell to bits in breath-taking fashion. The room listened, and everyone really, really wanted to be polite, but towards the end there was a distinct rippling noise from the crowd - no one was actually interrupting, it was rather the sound of two hundred people all furiously trying to bite their tongues.

It was great to have a speaker who wasn't preaching to the choir, though. I'm very glad the Birmingham SitP invited Professor McIntosh, and I'm glad I went to listen. I have, however, not changed my position on the place of 'Intelligent Design' in school science lessons.”

However haven't ploughed thru the rest of the blogs properly. Don't think I'll bother joining the brum skeptics in the pub tho as they don't seem sceptical enough for me - or perhaps not yet aware enough of the sheer tenacity and deviousness of creationists. Tho to be fair two years ago neither was I and I'd probably have found Andy McIntosh just decent but deluded. I get the vague impression he managed to blind the odd one or two with pseudo science.

I'm not sure I'd describe Andy McIntosh as a decent chap by any stretch of the imagination. Someone whose sole goal in life is to brainwash and damage the critical faculties of children is most definitely not a decent chap, more an egotistical and arrogant control freak.
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby marcsurtees » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:34 am

cathy wrote:You creationists are making it up. I don't believe 90% of you have ever bothered to either read the book of Genesis or think about what it says. If you are going to make things up, you might as well accept the scientific evidence and go with evolutionary explanations.

And God said "it was all very good". Or is that metaphor for something that is a bit of a bodge!


Death is part of life, death makes new life possible. Just because it is horrendous and miserable for us does not mean it would have been to your God in the greater scheme of things. I'm amazed that creationists are so arrogant they think they know what God thinks is 'very good' [...]
You're just making it all up Marc, it isn't there.


Are you sure you're not a troll?
I didn't make anything up... I quoted from His book!
If God declares something to be very good then I go with His objective opinion.
If there was death when God finished His creation then it could not by any stretch of the imagination be very good.
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby Michael » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:48 am

marcsurtees wrote:[ Are you sure you're not a troll?
I didn't make anything up... I quoted from His book!
If God declares something to be very good then I go with His objective opinion.
If there was death when God finished His creation then it could not by any stretch of the imagination be very good.


What you cannot get away from Marc is
1. Nowhere does it define what good/verygood is. It does not say there was no death. That is your interpereation which is not shared by most christians and has never been the orthodox opinion.

2.You ignore what kind of literature the Bible and specailly Genesis

3. ALL SCIENCE FOR 300 YEARS has shwon the earth/universe to be far older than 6000 years, and it was soon clear that animals had be dying long before humans - and by long millions of years

You are simply trapped in your personal private opinion PPO of the meaning of very good and then presume you can reject all science
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby marcsurtees » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:49 am

Roger Stanyard wrote:
marcsurtees wrote:
I thought that should be fairly clear. As selection pressure eases off, the rate of speciation declines. Basic evolution biology dear chap!


Basic redneck biology indeed. The "kinds" on the Ark "evolved into today's species over several thousand years without anyone ever noticing.

Jeez, your just a world class bullshitter.

Another scholarly contribution from the spokesperson of BCSE. :roll:

Maybe you should read more widely :wink:
See:
Lande, R. 2009. Adaptation to an extraordinary environment by evolution of phenotypic plasticity and genetic assimilation. Journal of Evolutionary Biology 22: 1435-1446.
http://www.mendeley.com/research/adapta ... milation/#
The abstract suggests that under extreme environmental pressure evolutionary change can be very rapid.
See also:
Scheiner, S.M. 2002. Selection experiments and the study of phenotypic plasticity. Journal of Evolutionary Biology 15: 889-898.
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby marcsurtees » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:54 am

Michael wrote:What you cannot get away from Marc is
1. Nowhere does it define what good/verygood is. It does not say there was no death. That is your interpereation which is not shared by most christians and has never been the orthodox opinion.

2.You ignore what kind of literature the Bible and specailly Genesis

You are simply trapped in your personal private opinion PPO of the meaning of very good and then presume you can reject all science

So your opinion is that death at the age of 70 or 80 after a (sometimes prolonged) period of decrepitude is "very good".
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Re: Skeptics in the pub and Andy McIntosh ?

Postby cathy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:17 pm

Are you sure you're not a troll?
I didn't make anything up... I quoted from His book!
If God declares something to be very good then I go with His objective opinion.
If there was death when God finished His creation then it could not by any stretch of the imagination be very good.

Ah well for Hindus death is an essential part of life and 'very good'. From death comes new life. With no death of stars you and I would not be here. With no death of living things and no fall Marc, either you and I would not be here (if McKay is right and reproduction stopped ha ha) or we'd be sitting on top of mountains of frogs and other fast breeding species with billions of other humans. And as we'd be rather full of e coli and other bacteria I assume we would be looking rather portly and gaseous as well. No death doesn't sound so 'very good' then does it.

If God declares something to be very good then I go with His objective opinion.
His objective opinion? When did he pass his objective opinion on to you Marc? Was it in a dream? As a burning bush? Angel Gabriel? What really makes you think you God shares your opinions particularly? Sounds rather arrogant to me.

Or, and I really do have to ask this. Were you there?

I didn't make anything up... I quoted from His book!

I cannot find half of your claims. No degeneration of perfect spines, in fact no degenerating anatomy, physiology, genetics, or death to all birdies and beasties and fishies are specifically mentioned as punishment. NOr is there any ref to Cains wife being his sister, or indeed to Adam being the father of all, the very notion of no death before fall is never mentioned either. And so on etc etc etc. In fact God is concerned humans may well eat from a tree that will give them immortality.

Nor is any chance to repent before Noah finishes his ark mentioned - which is another of your claims. In fact 95% of the claims you make I cannot find in a literal reading of that piece of religious poetry. In fact very specific punishments are handed out, none of which tie in with what any creationist claims.

So where exactly are you quoting from in Genesis?

As for the contradictions between story one and two. There is no logical explanation!!! What is the actual order Marc, is it story one plants, then ALL birdies than ALL wild and domestic beasties (including cattle) then humans last? Or is it story two - male human first, then some plants some, birdies, some more domestic animals (ignoring the fact they'd ALL already been created before humans in story one) than human two?

And in what way am I a troll? These are all valid questions which any creationist should be able to answer from a plain literal reading of the text. If they weren't so arrogant as to assume that what they think is good is what God should be thinking of as good of course.

Now I don't expect you to answer cos you very rarely do.
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