Two more creationist free schools approved

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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:57 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:The Imminent Demise of Evolution:
The Longest Running Falsehood in Creationism

In recent reading of Dembski and other ID proponents I saw them make a claim which has been made for over 40 years. This claim is one that the young-earthers have been making. The claim is that the theory of evolution (or major supporting concepts for it) is increasingly being abandoned by scientists, or is about to fall. This claim has many forms and has been made for over 178 years. This is a compilation of the claims over time. The purpose of this compilation is three-fold. First, it is to show that the claim has been made for a long, long time. Secondly, it is to show that entire careers have passed without seeing any of this movement away from evolution. Third, it is to show that the creationists are merely making these statements for the purpose of keeping hope alive that they are making progress towards their goal. In point of fact, no such progress is being made as anyone who has watched this area for the last 40 years can testify. The claim is false as history and present-day events show, yet that doesn't stop anyone wanting to sell books from making that claim. Now for the claims in chronological order
[/quote]

Like everything else from YECers - they just make it all up. Plus ca change.

And in all those years YECism (or ID) has not contributed one iota to any branch of science whatsoever.

Strange isn't it that Andy "Fingers" McIntosh and Paul Garner spend a heck of amount of their time presenting to tiny obscure churches and church groups but are never seen on the relevant regular scientific conference circuits, ever.
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby Brian Jordan » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:19 pm

Remember that the Sheffield lot were still trying to drum up trade long after their application had gone in. This suggests that the school never expected a goodly proportion of the required interested parents to actually send their children to the school.
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby Brian Jordan » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:41 pm

A good article by Nelson Jones on the New Statesman blog
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/sci-tech/2012/07/creationisms-far-unintelligent-design-our-schools
I knew a creationist once. He believed in a literal Adam and Eve and in the Tower of Babel, yet claimed to find natural selection implausible. He was no-one's idea of a knuckle-dragging, inbred redneck, either, but went on to gain a first class degree from Oxford.

He could argue me under the table, and often did, since with the naive overconfidence of youth I imagined that I might somehow be able to alter his mind by presenting it with facts. Small hope. His sharp, subtle, trap-like mind was entirely dedicated to defending propositions that had been obsolete since the middle of the nineteenth century. He knew all the rhetorical tricks and could deploy them with ease, weaving straw men with the skill of a master hatmaker from Montecristi.
He doesn't say what subject this paragon of nuttery went on to study but he does touch on the apologetic journalists who are playing down the danger of the creationists and adds a worry of his own, Well worth reading.
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby Moon Fire » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:59 pm

Roger Stanyard wrote:
cathy wrote:

So if the normals aren't generating sufficient interest how well are the creationist ones going to do? I suspect Exemplar will be ok, not cos parents want it particularly but because I suspect it is in an area where there is a shortage so some folk will have no options but to attend. Not to sure about the other two yet tho.



The matter isn't over yet, Cathy. What happens if there are street demonstrations in Newark against the school? It'll get a bad name before it ever opens its doors.

Through the grapevine, may I suggest you watch the Andrew Marr Show on Sunday morning.


What time is that on?
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby Brian Jordan » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:21 pm

Moon Fire wrote:
Through the grapevine, may I suggest you watch the Andrew Marr Show on Sunday morning.


What time is that on?
9am BBC1. 1 hour.
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:40 am

Brian Jordan wrote:A good article by Nelson Jones on the New Statesman blog
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/sci-tech/2012/07/creationisms-far-unintelligent-design-our-schools
I knew a creationist once. He believed in a literal Adam and Eve and in the Tower of Babel, yet claimed to find natural selection implausible. He was no-one's idea of a knuckle-dragging, inbred redneck, either, but went on to gain a first class degree from Oxford.

He could argue me under the table, and often did, since with the naive overconfidence of youth I imagined that I might somehow be able to alter his mind by presenting it with facts. Small hope. His sharp, subtle, trap-like mind was entirely dedicated to defending propositions that had been obsolete since the middle of the nineteenth century. He knew all the rhetorical tricks and could deploy them with ease, weaving straw men with the skill of a master hatmaker from Montecristi.
He doesn't say what subject this paragon of nuttery went on to study but he does touch on the apologetic journalists who are playing down the danger of the creationists and adds a worry of his own, Well worth reading.


It's a useful summary of recent developments and associated comment.

Incidentally, Exemplar Academy in Newark appear NOT to have a website yet.
Note the comment by AN 'Andy McIntosh' below this: http://www.newarkadvertiser.co.uk/artic ... s-approval
And this is the bloke who appeared on Channel 4 News a few months' ago I think: http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2 ... l-in-2013/
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:55 am

a_haworthroberts wrote:Getting a feeling of deja vu
Getting a feeling of deja vu
http://creation.com/creation-religious-education
Anti-YEC hysteria in some places well matched by YEC hysteria.
Statham is I think misrepresenting the [Gove]rnment stance - that creationism should not be taught as having 'scientific validity'. Not that - in RE - the whole subject is 'taboo'.
Or have a missed a subsequent development that takes things further?
"Moreover, it is surely significant that all this is happening at a time when there have never been so many scientific facts challenging the Darwinian paradigm." Such as?



CMI taking Facebook flak from a Damon Birch, Ian Moulsdale and Lawrence Robinson' (the latter I think posts here http://www.facebook.com/ExposingDishone ... eationists) over the misleading Statham article - and no wonder. Guess what - ALL their posts have been hidden from view, whilst the rebuttals can be read. CMI LOVE censorship.
http://www.facebook.com/creationnewsl
Last edited by a_haworthroberts on Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby Moon Fire » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:27 am

Brian Jordan wrote:
Moon Fire wrote:
Through the grapevine, may I suggest you watch the Andrew Marr Show on Sunday morning.


What time is that on?
9am BBC1. 1 hour.


Right, I'll try to remember to set my alarm then!
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby Michael » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:58 am

Moon Fire wrote:[ What time is that on?
9am BBC1. 1 hour.[/quote]

Right, I'll try to remember to set my alarm then![/quote]


I will have to record it as I will be at work
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby cathy » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:28 am

I will have to record it as I will be at work
I won't. Just a few more dark hours and then we'll be released from bondage and freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby Moon Fire » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:24 am

cathy wrote:
I will have to record it as I will be at work
I won't. Just a few more dark hours and then we'll be released from bondage and freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.


I'm free today ;)
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby Peter Henderson » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:35 am

cathy wrote:
I will have to record it as I will be at work
I won't. Just a few more dark hours and then we'll be released from bondage and freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.


Only six weeks until September.........

Must remember to set my Sky plus !
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby Brian Jordan » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:42 pm

Michael wrote:I will have to record it as I will be at work
Hi Michael, welcome home - hope you had a good holiday. Pity you didn't go to the Giants' Causeway though! :)
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby Brian Jordan » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:59 pm

Adam Rutherford on free schools and the Causeway as products of the Wedge Strategy.
Perhaps. The positions of the three schools are muddied by bland and, in my opinion, deliberately vague language, but they are explicit about not teaching creationism in science lessons, as they know that this as stated policy will bring about their extinction. Nevertheless, one of the schools, Grindon Hall, published a statement [http://www.grindonhall.com/documents/Creation%20Policy.docWord Doc] that includes phrases such as "the so-called ‘Big Bang’” and states that evolution will be taught as a “principle, as far as it goes”. It goes on to describe creationism as "an entirely respectable position scientifically". The head, Chris Gray, said the statement on the school's website is "out of date". He told the Guardian that it was “from a time when we were not as clear as we are now about the proper distinction as to what is taught in a science lesson and what might be taught in assembly – two different spheres”.

Does this sound like the language of someone who can be trusted to keep their boundaries in order?
http://newhumanist.org.uk/2841/ending-the-wedge
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Re: Two more creationist free schools approved

Postby cathy » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:40 pm

We've heard enough creationist bullshit now to know exactly what is meant. Teach creationism as some kind of scientific alternative in RE as per Phillip Bell. Teach evolution as something to be 'critically evaluated' in a way no other area of science is and leave the door just a little bit open to the notion that there may be a scientific rationale to the nonsense. They cannot be trusted and letting them near children is not worth the risk.

It would seem that Pastor Gareth Morgan, creationist loon with a creationist agenda, is still some kind of director of Exemplar Academy
http://www.company-director-check.co.uk ... /912017771

And have we ever known a creationist give up, stop talking nonsense and stop feeling the need to destroy the brains of anyone stupid OR young and naiave enough to listen.

And as predicted, whilst creationist looney tunes in Newark will be getting millions for a new build school the Newark advertiser article suggests two real schools not run by proselytising nutters are desperate for refurbs. Robbing money from real education!

Its not worth the risk. Children deserve better and the generations coming along now will need to understand science.
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