Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:53 am

a_haworthroberts wrote:I have no problem with an article evaluating Christian views on origins appearing in the Evangelical Times. When a practising evangelical Christian, some while ago, I was rather fuzzy about the whole origins (Genesis vs science) issue. I suspect many UK Christians remain so today - possibly intentionally because they know it is awkward and potentially divisive.

This is Part 1 - OK so far. http://www.evangelical-times.org/archiv ... Cbr%20/%3E

What WOULD be a problem is if in Part 2 Garner states, using his geology credentials, that the evidence pointing to the age of the Earth and universe is 'ambiguous' and therefore the YEC stance is scientifically supported as well as a 'plain' reading of the Bible.



HERE is Part 2:
http://www.evangelical-times.org/archiv ... igins--2-/
"Young earth creationism is widely conceded to be the best fit with the biblical data, even by many who do not accept it on scientific grounds.
The plain reading of the biblical text points to an historical Adam from whom all humans are descended, a causal link between sin and death, and a global flood within recent human history. Young earth creationism embraces all these as historical realities.
However, it obviously raises a lot of scientific questions and probably explains why so many evangelicals hesitate to embrace young earth creationism. But is this a fatal flaw? I would suggest not.
The difficult scientific questions are not avoided or dodged. Instead, young earth creationism provides a framework in which such problems can be addressed by careful scientific research.
Such efforts have already yielded encouraging results that suggest the potential for developing sound alternative explanations of the scientific evidence!" [Ref to Garner's 2009 book 'The New Creationism']

Has anybody here read his book? Four years on, have YECs developed sound alternative explanations of the scientific evidence? Has his book led to any peer reviewed science - or just some new apologetics claims?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-New-Creatio ... ewpoints=1
Paul Braterman wrote a review here; one hopes he read the book.

Interesting that Garner does NOT try to flog 'Set in Stone' in his article (people might read the Amazon.co.uk reviews).
Last edited by a_haworthroberts on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:55 am

The framework for scientific research is the EVIDENCE Paul - not young Earth creationism!
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:24 am

Have added a comment under THIS review - where a certain Bella also appeared: http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R1F25E48 ... BMVSP7RA6T
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Michael » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:39 am

Garner's book is drivel. I have commented on it in places
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Peter Henderson » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:30 pm

HERE is Part 2:
http://www.evangelical-times.org/archiv ... igins--2-/


It's a pity the Evangelical Times haven't put a disclaimer at the bottom of Garner's article i.e. the views expressed by Paul Garner are not necessarily those held by the Evangelical Times.

By not doing so it suggests the Evangelical Times agrees with young Earth creationism.
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Brian Jordan » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:33 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:It's a pity the Evangelical Times haven't put a disclaimer at the bottom of Garner's article i.e. the views expressed by Paul Garner are not necessarily those held by the Evangelical Times.

By not doing so it suggests the Evangelical Times agrees with young Earth creationism.
Doesn't it?
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:36 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:
HERE is Part 2:
http://www.evangelical-times.org/archiv ... igins--2-/


It's a pity the Evangelical Times haven't put a disclaimer at the bottom of Garner's article i.e. the views expressed by Paul Garner are not necessarily those held by the Evangelical Times.

By not doing so it suggests the Evangelical Times agrees with young Earth creationism.


It almost certainly is YEC; its principal founding shareholder, a bloke called Metcalfe, was a leading YEC activist mixed up with Andy "Fingers" McIntosh and Truth in Science. IIRC his son is now involved in TiS. Evangelical Times is quite influential as it had, at least until relatively recently, a circulation of around 40,000 copies.
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:51 pm

http://www.evangelical-times.org/about-et/mission.php
From their Mission Statement:
"Evangelical Times is committed to promoting true biblical ecumenism. It, therefore, avoids the unnecessary polemicising of secondary differences between Reformed evangelical believers."

Would they publish an article on origins by somebody like Denis Alexander, I wonder.
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby cathy » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:24 am

"Evangelical Times is committed to promoting true biblical ecumenism. It, therefore, avoids the unnecessary polemicising of secondary differences between Reformed evangelical believers."

Would they publish an article on origins by somebody like Denis Alexander, I wonder.

Then it doesn't consider creationism a secondary difference but an essential?

Or it should publish the alternative veiws.
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:35 pm

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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Moon Fire » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:20 pm

Michael wrote:Garner's book is drivel. I have commented on it in places


Seconded.......although I think drivel is being too kind!
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:47 pm

http://thenewcreationism.wordpress.com/ ... l-roberts/
(The original criticism was posted on Premier and thus no longer seems to be available.)

Glancing through, this seems to show how posting YEC pseudo-science is not as time-consuming as debunking it in detail often is.
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby cathy » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:07 am

I went down to see oldest child yesterday and dragged the kids to the British museum whilst there so walked right past UCL. If I'd thought I'd have printed out a copy of the Set In Stone comments and popped them into their geology dept. See if they were impressed with his drivel :evil:
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:07 pm

cathy wrote:I went down to see oldest child yesterday and dragged the kids to the British museum whilst there so walked right past UCL. If I'd thought I'd have printed out a copy of the Set In Stone comments and popped them into their geology dept. See if they were impressed with his drivel :evil:


One wonders whether Garner will "use" his qualification from UCL to "show" how a once notoriously secular university is "misrepresenting" science.
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Peter Henderson » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:02 pm

Roger Stanyard wrote:
cathy wrote:I went down to see oldest child yesterday and dragged the kids to the British museum whilst there so walked right past UCL. If I'd thought I'd have printed out a copy of the Set In Stone comments and popped them into their geology dept. See if they were impressed with his drivel :evil:


One wonders whether Garner will "use" his qualification from UCL to "show" how a once notoriously secular university is "misrepresenting" science.


When I asked him why he didn't present set in stone to the Geological Society, and why they issued a statement rejecting young Earth creationism, he quoted 2nd Peter to me.
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