Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby psiloiordinary » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:16 pm

Hi Cathy,

Don't hold your breath!

But give him one little but of credit. He has actually posted a link here.

I wonder if it will last when he realises it means his readers can check up in him?

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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Michael » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:32 pm

No way, all on the BCSE forum are atheists like me. At least I think I am as S Bazlington from Biblical Creation ministries (and an Anglican priest) wrote to ask me if I were an atheistic evolutionist.

Who am I to challenge that august organisation?
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Mr Paul Garner - double standards?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:39 pm

If fellow YECs get something wrong, YECs typically turn a blind eye (in public certainly).

If their critics get something wrong, YECs all too frequently react like this:
http://thenewcreationism.wordpress.com/ ... ressingly/
AND now THIS:
http://thenewcreationism.wordpress.com/ ... dest-word/

Does Mr Garner allow comments under his blog entries? Apparently NOT.

I suspect that Mr Garner is fed up because some of us who post on this community forum exposed his deceit in the Set in Stone DVD during 2012.

I do not know what he is like face to face but in writing Mr Garner - like his Truth in Science* allies - comes across as highly pompous. It is also apparent that he holds the BCSE in contempt.

Some quotes:
"Well here I am again, after a lengthy break from blogging. I must confess I didn’t expect to break my “purdah” with this particular post and would much rather be writing about something more edifying. However…
Some of you will be familiar with the BCSE, the notorious anti-creationist organisation here in the UK that models itself loosely on the NCSE in the USA, but has none of the scholarly gloss or presentational panache.
In the past I’ve pointed out their inability to get even basic facts right and so I hesitate to draw further attention to them" (today's first blog post)
"Your suggested solution to these aspersions upon my personal honesty and integrity (namely to blame ICR) is unconscionable..." (ditto)
"The fact that BCSE is unwilling to give such an apology and retraction on its forum tells everyone all that they need to know about the BCSE" (ditto)
"You have probably suffered enough of the BCSE’s silliness by now, but I thought it instructive to give you a brief update on how the BCSE responds to being called out on its malicious claims" (today's second blog post)
"Although it is not our intention to get embroiled in lengthy discussions with internet critics, especially those so ready to impute dishonourable motives to us, some response to these comments is in order" ('Truth in Science': http://www.truthinscience.org.uk/tis2/i ... arner.html)
"Endless point and counterpoint is clearly not going to satisfy Stephen Moreton and his colleagues. Paul Garner stands by the content of 'Set in Stone' and feels that enough has been said to establish its main thesis that catastrophism has played a dominant role in the geological history of the UK, and indeed globally. He reserves the right to respond in part or in whole to this latest communication from Stephen Moreton, but feels under no obligation to do so"
('Truth in Science' on 14.07.12 under Stephen Moreton's review at Amazon.co.uk of 'Set in Stone' after the deliberate misdirection within Set in Stone had been exposed)

I also thought that Roger had apologised here earlier today (as Garner's second blog mentions)? But perhaps it was not abject enough. Garner wants his readers to think we are a bunch of wicked liars it would seem.

And Garner also states falsely in his first blog today:
"You are now seeking (without any evidence at all) to pass the buck onto ICR...". Read this thread AGAIN, please Mr Garner. Look at the link that Brian supplied - to a previous version of that ICR webpage about 'FAST'. It is possible that Peter, Roger, Brian and others wrongly assumed that Mr Garner was now calling himself 'Dr' Garner because the US blogger named Claire mentioned this - and she may have formed this impression from what she or others saw on the ICR website. But YECs typically impute the worst possible motives to their opponents. Thus Garner tries to insist: "What does all this tell us? In short, that when members of the BCSE are caught out making claims they cannot substantiate, they prevaricate, obfuscate, offer begrudging “semi-apologies” that are not really apologies at all and generally seek to evade responsibility". The US blogger may have said that Garner refers to "himself" as 'Dr' Garner but that does NOT show that she did not get this impression from the ICR website or someone else who had read the article on the ICR website.

Mr Garner sounds genuinely annoyed but he is also playing to the gallery. In his second blog he is advocating censorship within this discussion forum, even though anyone reading this thread to its conclusion will NOT be misled about Garner's qualifications.




* http://www.truthinscience.org.uk/tis2/i ... nu-82.html
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Peter Henderson » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:33 am

Well, it seems the ICR have now corrected their error and Claire has removed the "Dr. Paul Garner" comments from her video.

Still, the fact remains that Paul now appears to deny that unconformities exist in geology

The blogger appears unaware of recently published data supporting a tectonic origin of the sand-filled cracks at the base of the Coconino, contrary to the older interpretation that they were desiccation cracks.


Maybe I'm spending too much time with Atheists :roll:
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Michael » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:27 am

Peter Henderson wrote:Well, it seems the ICR have now corrected their error and Claire has removed the "Dr. Paul Garner" comments from her video.

Still, the fact remains that Paul now appears to deny that unconformities exist in geology

The blogger appears unaware of recently published data supporting a tectonic origin of the sand-filled cracks at the base of the Coconino, contrary to the older interpretation that they were desiccation cracks.


Maybe I'm spending too much time with Atheists :roll:



Like me?
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby cathy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:39 pm

Ooh just checked Paul's blog and he still doesn't seem to get that the folk responsible for the error were his own little pals at ICR!

But I get a mention!
Finally there was “Cathy”, an otherwise anonymous school teacher from the Midlands with an inordinate fondness for exclamation marks. She simply repeats the BCSE line that ICR is to blame for the BCSE smearing me, even though there is no evidence at all for this assertion. Indeed, the atheist blogger from whom Peter Henderson (and subsequently Roger Stanyard) originally derived the claim said nothing whatsoever about ICR as the source, rather stating (incorrectly) that I refer to myself as “Dr Garner”.



Well Paul seeing as how you seem to be reading my comments, the evidence for the assertion that ICR is to blame for BCSE smearing you with the accusation that you are calling yourself a Dr when you are not, was actually taken from the ICR website. I'd guess that is where the blogger got it from as well. The actual source of that error (and hence the blame) would appear to be a fact that you yourself admitted here.
The ICR web page that Mr Stanyard had apparently by this time googled did incorrectly list me as “Dr. Paul Garner” but ICR kindly and very quickly corrected this mistake as soon as it was pointed out to them.


I've tried to highlight the relevant bits as you seem to be unable to understand them or the facts. As far as I can see BCSE has also now corrected the facts and admitted it was not you that was lying about your qualifications. It was in fact an simple error. An error made by your peers at ICR not BCSE. I'd say ICR is one of the obvious places for non creationists to go to check facts about creationist researchers wouldn't you?

What more do you want? It is not BCSEs fault that ICR made an error. Are you suggesting that taking information from the ICR site in good faith was a mistake on BCSEs part? What other bits are in error Paul. Are you suggesting we should we take all the information on the ICR site with a pinch of salt? How can we trust them when they make such a basic error without checking all their facts eh Paul.

You are right about my love of exclamation marks. I find them so expressive of rage, indignation and sheer gobsmackedness. You should try them yourself.

Now I look forward to reading your apology for blaming BCSE for an error made in good faith. I also look forward to you hurling and equal amount of invective towards the real source of your grief - ICR. I also look forward to a public apology to you on their website. It is the very least you deserve after all the harm and hurt it's generated for you. It's not on there yet Paul, best get chasing them. Oh and just for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby cathy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:49 pm

What does all this tell us? In short, that when members of the BCSE are caught out making claims they cannot substantiate, they prevaricate, obfuscate, offer begrudging “semi-apologies” that are not really apologies at all and generally seek to evade responsibility. What they don’t do is say sorry.


Paul the people that need to publicly apologise to you are ICR.

I suggest you demand your full and grovelling apology from them. I suggest you ask that they do so publicly so others who have been misled by their mistake will clearly see it. Lest all this happen again. I suggest you will seem like a hypocrite after all you have said about bcse and about correcting people who call you Dr if you don't ask for the above from them.
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:03 pm

cathy wrote:
Paul Garner wrote:What they don’t do is say sorry.
Oh dear me!
Brian Jordan wrote:If Mr. Garner still feels, despite my explanation, that in compounding these errors I have in some way maligned him I am, of course, happy to apologise.
Roger Stanyard wrote:However, it does appear that I have not been sufficently precise in detailing Mr Garner's two qualifications and personally apologise to him according.
apologize
əˈpɒlədʒʌɪz/
verb
verb: apologize; 3rd person present: apologizes; past tense: apologized; past participle: apologized; gerund or present participle: apologizing; verb: apologise; 3rd person present: apologises; past tense: apologised; past participle: apologised; gerund or present participle: apologising

1.
express regret for something that one has done wrong.
"I must apologize for disturbing you like this"
synonyms: say sorry, express regret, be apologetic, make an apology, ask forgiveness, beg (someone's) forgiveness, ask for pardon, beg (someone's) pardon;
I wouldn't have thought spelling it with an "S" made it mean anything different from the above definition. Oh, and just in case there's still any confusion
synonym
ˈsɪnənɪm/
noun
noun: synonym; plural noun: synonyms

1.
a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language, for example shut is a synonym of close.
Both definitions direct from google.co.uk with my emphases added.
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Peter Henderson » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:08 pm

We've awoken Mr. Garner from his slumber.

I'd consider that something of a success :wink:
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Michael » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:27 pm

His magnum opus on the Coconino sandstone should be nearly ready.

He will prove it to be all deposited by water.
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Peter Henderson » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:35 pm

Michael wrote:His magnum opus on the Coconino sandstone should be nearly ready.

He will prove it to be all deposited by water.


But will he present his "research"to the Geological Society of London (of which he is a fellow !), that's the question.
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby psiloiordinary » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:46 am

Roger was correct earlier when he said Paul was not listed as a fellow of the RGS. But later that same day he started appearing then he went missing again then reappeared again!

He is currently listed with his "areas of expertise" self listed as Palaeontology and Teaching.

Having studied some geology and some palaeontology myself I know they are very different disciplines. Any thoughts?

Perhaps this explains why he had his listing non-public, I have only heard him claim to be a geologist. No mention of palaeontology to my knowledge. Have I missed something?

His earlier email confirmed his degree is in "combined science" and his masters in Geoscience, certainly some geological content but not geology specialist degrees by a long chalk. Perhaps this is why the RGS listing says what it does?

I'm not sure how this gives him any authority to comment on the coconino sandstones. Has anyone bothered to look up his reference yet? How is this for a prediction? Some evidence that some cracks at the unconformity might be volcanic which does not imply they were or were not in Noah's flood anyway, and the rest of them do still look like they were formed by drying out and hence were unlikely to form in the middle of Noah's flood anyway. But he is now just using this to intimate all of modern geology is wrong, anyway.

Sigh

Well he can now bog and accuse me of calling him names for asking questions again can't he?

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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby Michael » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:23 am

From all I have read of Garner's "geology" he has no skills in geology.

This is clear when you read his New Creationism which is full of geological howlers

And then on the Aeolian Coconino sandstone which I visited this year, he is simply in denial about its Aeolian origin and tries to pick up on a few signs of aqueous origin. However any desert formation will have some as it sometimes rains and when it does flash floods are formed . Structures like ripple marks and mudcracks are common and again I saw lots of recent ones of those in September in the SW.

Also to be FGS , you only need a degree which has a significant geology component.

Michael FGS lapsed MIMM lapsed FRHistS elected on grounds of publications - one of the very few who don't have a Ph D
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Re: Paul Garner mysteriously disappearing?

Postby cathy » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:51 pm

Still no public apology for Paul on the ICR site. He must be livid! Still no blog demanding one on his site either. Can't think why when you look at just how much the mistake upset him. ICR misled us all into thinking Paul was a dissembler - you really think they'd make it up with a front page spread.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:32 pm

cathy wrote:Still no public apology for Paul on the ICR site. He must be livid! Still no blog demanding one on his site either. Can't think why when you look at just how much the mistake upset him. ICR misled us all into thinking Paul was a dissembler - you really think they'd make it up with a front page spread.



Cathy - I think you are making the mistake that the ICR, based in Dallas incidentally but only founded in 1970, have some common decency or a shred of humility about them.
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