Genesis Expo Reopens

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Genesis Expo Reopens

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu May 30, 2013 4:57 pm

The Creation Science Movement's idiotic "museum", Genesis Expo, has re-opended, Portsmouth Skeptics in the Pub tell me. Same location just outside of Portsmouth Habour railway station.
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Re: Genesis Expo Reopens

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu May 30, 2013 5:58 pm

I assume 'expo' is not an abbreviation for 'exposed'.
http://www.genesisexpo.co.uk/
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Re: Genesis Expo Reopens

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu May 30, 2013 6:25 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:I assume 'expo' is not an abbreviation for 'exposed'.
http://www.genesisexpo.co.uk/


It appears that CSM has a new(ish) council member, "Dr" Bill Cooper. His first degree is basically in English literature. It's the PhD which looks distinctly dubious - from an obscure American fundamentalist "college", Emmanuel College of Christian Studies, in Springdale, Arkansas which teaches "creationist apologetics". As far as I can make out, this outfit is not accredited. There are claims it is accredited by the International Agency of Independent Accreditation for Christian Education - see http://www.ministers-best-friend.com/In ... N-222.html - which looks to be a bunch or amateurs from the arsehole of nowhere.

It appears that Emmanuel College of Christian Studies doesn't even have a web site and it's doctorate degrees are done through correspondence courses. In fact Cooper is claim to have two doctorate degrees from the same institution. As far as I can make out, Emmanuel College of Christian Studies hands out PhDs from another obscure unaccredited outfit, Cambridge Theological Seminary which also offers PhDs just for believing in Jesus. However, it refuses to award doctor of divinity degrees to anyone who is gay.
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Re: Genesis Expo Reopens

Postby Brian Jordan » Thu May 30, 2013 6:27 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:I assume 'expo' is not an abbreviation for 'exposed'.
http://www.genesisexpo.co.uk/
It may well be. "Genes is exposed" would fit with both their ideology and their level of education.
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Re: Genesis Expo Reopens

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu May 30, 2013 6:32 pm

Brian

I was thinking more along these lines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expo

In case anyone does not know about Bill Cooper: http://www.csm.org.uk/news.php?viewmessage=181

Also saw this: http://www.csm.org.uk/news.php?viewmessage=190
Brief and to the point!

Ashley
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Re: Genesis Expo Reopens

Postby Brian Jordan » Thu May 30, 2013 6:49 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:In case anyone does not know about Bill Cooper: http://www.csm.org.uknews.php?viewmessage=181
Ah,
Part One of this book deals with the antiquity of Genesis, showing how each of its component parts is considerably older than any of the sources proposed for it by the modernist school.
Does that make him an OEC, stating that Genesis is >4,500 years old yet, obviously, not antediluvian or is he just a YEC apologist?
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Re: Genesis Expo Reopens

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu May 30, 2013 6:58 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:
a_haworthroberts wrote:In case anyone does not know about Bill Cooper: http://www.csm.org.uknews.php?viewmessage=181
Ah,
Part One of this book deals with the antiquity of Genesis, showing how each of its component parts is considerably older than any of the sources proposed for it by the modernist school.
Does that make him an OEC, stating that Genesis is >4,500 years old yet, obviously, not antediluvian or is he just a YEC apologist?


As far as I am aware, CSM does not rigidly stick to a 6,000 year old universe which is why a load of people split with it in the 1980s and formed the Biblical Creation Society.
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Re: the CSM

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu May 30, 2013 10:52 pm

My working assumption is that Cooper is a YEC not an OEC. Marc Surtees wrote in the '6,000 year' thread on 29.09.12: "Also there is quite a lot of ancient literature which is consistent with Biblical history. Some of which has been reviewed by Bill Cooper in his book After the Flood". And the title of his 2012 book (which appears not to have been widely read based on the limited number of online reviews) 'The Authenticity of the book of Genesis' may imply that he accepts the timescales for (very limited planetary and human) history implied in Bible genealogies.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews ... ewpoints=1
http://www.amazon.com/The-Authenticity- ... ewpoints=1

But I was also assuming that the CSM were exclusively young Earth creationists.
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Re: Genesis Expo Reopens

Postby Peter Henderson » Fri May 31, 2013 9:40 am

Some comments from all the "5 star" reviews:

Highly recommended to all seekers of biblical and historical truth.
Find out what modern scholarship and secular history doesn't want you to know


The serious study of Genesis requires that this book be included. Even if you doubt the authenticity of the book of Genesis you should consider the information provided here as a matter of due diligence


Very much appreciated the thorough documentation. Would like to have seen the author lay off the persistent chiding of "modernists" who I am all to sure are so self-deluded as to not care about the facts. The information Bill Cooper lays out stands on it's own for those whom the Holy Spirit has given eyes to see and ears to hear. As it is GOD'S word, I don't waste time doubting it as I have never seen a reason to give anyone or any collection on people credibility over God's word. If man and God disagree, there is no doubt who to believe. Nevertheless, it is very fun and edifying to learn the information Bill Cooper brings to light here. I expect to find it highly useful in sharing the Word in the future.


If you want to find affirmation for Creation, the Fall, the Deluge, Tower of Babel, confusion of tongues, and dispersion of language groups around the world, you will want to purchase this volume. Get your pen and highlighter ready and plan to spend some time with this one.


A long overdue exposé of just how much information has been concealed by modernist/revisionist historians for ideological reasons simply because they cannot bear to even contemplate that the book of Genesis may be truthful, factual and accurate.
As Cooper rightly states "...shame on them all."


Someone really neads to have a look at this book and examine Cooper's claims. It would be interesting to see if there's anything new here or if it's just the same old drivel.
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Re: Genesis Expo Reopens

Postby Peter Henderson » Fri May 31, 2013 9:46 am

But I was also assuming that the CSM were exclusively young Earth creationists.


CSM's chairman, Dr. David Rosevear is definitely a YEC:

http://creation.com/david-rosevear

I can't see anything that would indicate otherwise about the rest of their speakers Ashley:

https://www.csm.org.uk/speakers.php
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Re: Genesis Expo Reopens

Postby Peter Henderson » Fri May 31, 2013 9:54 am

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Re: Genesis Expo Reopens

Postby Peter Henderson » Fri May 31, 2013 10:03 am

A good critical review of his earlier book:

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/monsters_ ... ns_of_beo/

Cooper’s book may seem a slightly silly contribution to the creationist arsenal. Certainly, it is easy for anyone with a background in medieval history, languages, or literature to refute many of his arguments. Unfortunately, his target audience probably does not in­clude many medieval scholars. Very few people have expertise in the medieval genealogies of Wales, Ireland, Anglo-Saxon England, or Scandinavia, for instance. The scholarly trappings of Cooper’s work give it an air of authority, and it has become extremely popular among creationists. A Google search of the words “Beowulf” and “dinosaurs” returns over twelve million hits. Some of these sites refute creationist claims, but many are verbatim copies of all or parts of After the Flood or adaptations of it.
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Re: Genesis Expo Reopens

Postby Roger Stanyard » Fri May 31, 2013 3:49 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:
But I was also assuming that the CSM were exclusively young Earth creationists.


CSM's chairman, Dr. David Rosevear is definitely a YEC:

http://creation.com/david-rosevear

I can't see anything that would indicate otherwise about the rest of their speakers Ashley:

https://www.csm.org.uk/speakers.php


They no doubt are but Rosevear and his pals were a bunch of "young turks" who took over control of the Evolution Protest Movement in (IIRC) the 1970s when it probably had a lot of OEC members - it had been an OEC organisation. So they couldn't impose YECism because it would have lost members. As a consequence some of the YECers split off to form the BCS.
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Re: Genesis Expo Reopens

Postby Roger Stanyard » Fri May 31, 2013 4:28 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:A good critical review of his earlier book:

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/monsters_ ... ns_of_beo/

Cooper’s book may seem a slightly silly contribution to the creationist arsenal. Certainly, it is easy for anyone with a background in medieval history, languages, or literature to refute many of his arguments. Unfortunately, his target audience probably does not in­clude many medieval scholars. Very few people have expertise in the medieval genealogies of Wales, Ireland, Anglo-Saxon England, or Scandinavia, for instance. The scholarly trappings of Cooper’s work give it an air of authority, and it has become extremely popular among creationists. A Google search of the words “Beowulf” and “dinosaurs” returns over twelve million hits. Some of these sites refute creationist claims, but many are verbatim copies of all or parts of After the Flood or adaptations of it.


The more I dig around about "Dr" Bill Cooper, the more he looks to be a charlatan. His Doctor of Divinity degree isn't a degree of any sort. It's a degree "given away" by the Cambridge Theological Seminary to fundamentalist ministers. I say "given away" but it seems to make money out of the scam. According to an Anglican vicar, The Rev Comerford "the DD is not free. As you scroll down [the web site], they tell you that although all the (unnamed) administrators are volunteers, “to keep this Ministry functioning … we need a $31 offering to cover for our purchase, custom-printing, embossed-stamping, gold-sealing, and double-signing” of the “Standard-Size Degree” and a $21 Offering for additional copies. But, you are told, “It is a Beautiful Degree … You will be so pleased!”

Then, you are also asked for a $39 offering to evaluate your application, “Transcript your Life Experience” into Semester Credits, and to form your “Official Credit-Bank Record” in their records, a $30 offering to make a permanent file and maintain your college transcript and degree records “indefinitely… for your future verification needs,” a $59 offering to “Register your Doctor of Divinity” in three states, Florida, Virginia and Ohio, and a $22 offering for shipping, handling and mailing. In all, this totals $151 for what they call a “Seed-Faith Offering.”

Of course, despite its website suggesting otherwise, the Cambridge Theological Seminary has no connection with Cambridge whatsoever. It's based in Ohio! A more recent scam it is involved in is setting up its own "Oxford University" - Oxford University of the Bible. No doubt this is another nice little earner in terms of selling bogus degree certificates. Arthur Daley would be proud of such a scam.

Of course, the one thing you won't find anywhere is any photos of the Cambridge Theological Seminary or Oxford University of the Bible. That's because they don't actually exist. They are just front names for scams. Like the European Theological Seminary, which turned out to be a one man band operation operated from a spare room in his home.

edit: I forgot to add that "Dr" Cooper is (in his own words as at Jan 2013) "Professor of Providential and Geopolitical History at Emmanuel College of Christian Studies in Springdale, Arkansas". Quite an achievement given that he appears to be resident in the UK.
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Re: Bill Cooper

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri May 31, 2013 5:10 pm

From the CSM post which drew attention to Cooper's 2012 book:

"Part One of this book deals with the antiquity of Genesis, showing how each of its component parts is considerably older than any of the sources proposed for it by the modernist school.
Part Two deals with the pre-Christian Flood traditions that are found around the world, which together present a formidable body of evidence for the truth of Genesis when it speaks of the Flood of Noah. Finally,
Part Three draws the reader’s attention to a certain clay tablet which makes nonsense of the modernist claim that the Flood account found in Genesis is modelled on or derived from the Epic of Gilgamesh or any other proposed source. We call it here the Genesis Flood Tablet."

It sounds like 'new' claims but not very exciting ones (AiG, CMI and the ICR seem so far unaware of them or possibly unimpressed by them).
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