Methodists clearly against creationism?

All are welcome to this forum, which is for debating the teaching of creationism or intelligent design in schools. This forum can be boisterous, and you should not participate if easily offended.

Moderator: Moderators

Methodists clearly against creationism?

Postby cathy » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:39 am

Got chatting to someone from America last week who was a methodist who claimed that unlike other churches hers had made it clear they weren't creationists and she directed me to this on their main website. Its united methodists not sure how that ties in with methodists in general or methodists in this country but it was very encouraging.

www.umc.org/site/apps/nlnet/content.asp ... 4KnN1LtH...‎

The official statement on Science and Technology says in part, "We find that science’s descriptions of cosmological, geological, and biological evolution are not in conflict with theology."

The Church also opposes introducing theories such as Creationism or Intelligent Design into public school curriculum.


160 F) Science and Technology —We recognize science as a legitimate interpretation of God’s natural world. We affirm the validity of the claims of science in describing the natural world and in determining what is scientific. We preclude science from making authoritative claims about theological issues and theology from making authoritative claims about scientific issues. We find that science’s descriptions of cosmological, geological, and biological evolution are not in conflict with theology. We recognize medical, technical, and scientific technologies as legitimate uses of God’s natural world when such use enhances human life and enables all of God’s children to develop their God-given creative potential without violating our ethical convictions about the relationship of humanity to the natural world. We reexamine our ethical convictions as our understanding of the natural world increases. We find that as science expands human understanding of the natural world, our understanding of the mysteries of God’s creation and word are enhanced.

In acknowledging the important roles of science and technology, however, we also believe that theological understandings of human experience are crucial to a full understanding of the place of humanity in the universe. Science and theology are complementary rather than mutually incompatible. We therefore encourage dialogue between the scientific and theological communities and seek the kind of participation that will enable humanity to sustain life on earth and, by God’s grace, increase the quality of our common lives together.

From The Book of Discipline of The United Methodist Church - 2012. Copyright 2012 by The United Methodist Publishing House. Used by permission.

Dated 2012.

Have any of the other churches done something similar that can be used against creationists? There were also interesting articles one of which states that it is time for people of faith to accept evolution
It is time for The United Methodist Church to overcome its qualms about evolution for the sake of our children, each other and the future of society to work together in accepting the findings of science. Together we need to correct the misconceptions and discard the myths.

Eugenie C. Scott, the executive director of the National Center for Science Education, says that rejecting evolution puts at risk the high level of scientific achievement that has helped propel the United States to a position of economic, technological and political leadership.

Interestingly, delegates to The United Methodist Church’s 2008 General Conference overwhelmingly passed three petitions clarifying the denominational position regarding evolution. One endorses The Clergy Letter Project that provides resources for churches on this subject.

Let me combine information from Scott with some from additional sources to help explain what the problem is and how to solve it.


Haven't looked elsewhere but maybe some of the Christians here could pass it on to the Evangelical Alliance as a model of good practice?
cathy
 
Posts: 3665
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:51 pm
Location: Redditch

Re: Methodists clearly against creationism?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:50 am

cathy wrote:Got chatting to someone from America last week who was a methodist who claimed that unlike other churches hers had made it clear they weren't creationists and she directed me to this on their main website. Its united methodists not sure how that ties in with methodists in general or methodists in this country but it was very encouraging.

My maternal grandfather was a Methodist minister. Our research shows that the Methodists in the UK are "off the map" when it comes to creationism. We identified just one Methodist creationists and I gather he's regarded as barmy by the Methodist Church. Overall, the UK Methodists are a fairly progressive lot - they ordained women ministers 25 years before the CofE started doing so.

I suspect there is a deeper reason why the Methodists have not fallen for fundamentalism. It's a sect that has traditionally aligned itself with the political left. My grandfather was a staunch Labour man who, incidentally, saw real hardship in the inter-war period. At one stage every adult male in his congregation in Newcastle was unemployed. The Methodists are simply not right wing nutters.
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
User avatar
Roger Stanyard
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Methodists clearly against creationism?

Postby jon_12091 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:12 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Methodist_Church
Second largest Protestant church after the Southern Baptists apparently.....
'If I can shoot rabbits then I can shoot fascists'
Miners against fascism.
Hywel Francis
User avatar
jon_12091
 
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Methodists clearly against creationism?

Postby Peter Henderson » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:53 pm

I grew up in the Methodist Chrurch in Ireland Cathy and, as Roger quite correctly says it's well off the radar when it comes to YECism, and has very much socialist leanings (Roy Jenkins was a leading Methodist, if I remember correctly).

However, Geoff Chapman (Creation resources trust) is a Methodist local preacher so I'm not sure how much of a foothold YECism has in the denomination:

http://www.crt.org.uk/about_us.htm

I'm also pretty sure Philip Bell has spoken in a number Methodist churches on the mainland.
Peter Henderson
 
Posts: 4348
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:07 pm
Location: Jordanstown, Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland

Re: Methodists clearly against creationism?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:53 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:I grew up in the Methodist Chrurch in Ireland Cathy and, as Roger quite correctly says it's well off the radar when it comes to YECism, and has very much socialist leanings (Roy Jenkins was a leading Methodist, if I remember correctly).

However, Geoff Chapman (Creation resources trust) is a Methodist local preacher so I'm not sure how much of a foothold YECism has in the denomination:

http://www.crt.org.uk/about_us.htm

I'm also pretty sure Philip Bell has spoken in a number Methodist churches on the mainland.


I'm going back a few years now but IIRC they were not part of the main Methodist movement.

As Harold Wilson once said, the Labour Party owed more to Methodism than to Marx. For starters, the Methodists "trained" many leaders of the Labour movement in the art of public speaking.
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
User avatar
Roger Stanyard
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Methodists clearly against creationism?

Postby Brian Jordan » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:08 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:I'm also pretty sure Philip Bell has spoken in a number Methodist churches on the mainland.
CMI's Vij Sodera was manipulating Methodists in May
CMI wrote:Sat. 11th. WEST CAMEL (Somerset), West Camel Methodist Church
http://www.crt.org.uk/page7.html
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
User avatar
Brian Jordan
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4208
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Methodists clearly against creationism?

Postby Peter Henderson » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:17 pm

I'm going back a few years now but IIRC they were not part of the main Methodist movement.


Indeed Roger, there are also the Independent Metheodists and Free Methodist Movements, both of which are pretty much YEC (at least they are in NI), though I had the impression Chapman was mainstream Methodist. I have been told these groups were formed as the result of the split between the Wesleys and George Whitfield (over the predestination issue).

CMI's Vij Sodera was manipulating Methodists in May


To my knowledge Brian, no YEC talk has taken place within any Methodist Church in ireland congrgation, thus far.

However, give it time. It would appear no denomination is immune :evil:
Peter Henderson
 
Posts: 4348
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:07 pm
Location: Jordanstown, Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland

Re: Methodists clearly against creationism?

Postby cathy » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:42 pm

Indeed Roger, there are also the Independent Metheodists and Free Methodist Movements, both of which are pretty much YEC (at least they are in NI), though I had the impression Chapman was mainstream Methodist. I have been told these groups were formed as the result of the split between the Wesleys and George Whitfield (over the predestination issue).


Free Methodists!!!! Also YEC over here Peter. That is the cult my first creationist came from. A huge mega church with a sub branch in Redditch but based in Solihull. Called Renewal it seemed to be branching out all over the Midlands with people coming from all over Brum and sub branches in Redditch and out as far as Stratford Upon Avon. Complete with youth outreach, toddler groups, summer play schemes the lot. It took me ages to find out what sect it was as, in ignorance, I assumed all non RC were pretty much CofE at that time.

My first creationist, when he'd failed to convince me, gave me a CD of one of their speeches/sermons church talks which was overtly creationist and pouring scorn on science in general. They shared a lot of members in Redditch (because their sub branch was small) with the other large creationist church - which was Elim. Creationist acquaintance mum who was totally into the old AiG stuff attended both, as did my sane non creationist Christian friend. The Elims were the ones running the local youth clubs that nearly indoctrinated my kids. But it was the Free Methodist Renewal that second child was going to until I heard how loony and creationist they were and pulled her out pdq. The Redditch branch of renewal closed due to lack of interest, which I think was financial as it had a steady congregation but wasn't growing.

So Free Methodists are different from ordinary methodists? Which must be where I was getting confused.

I have been subsequently told by creationist acquaintance mum that Renewal had reined in its overtly creationist stance and was now openly stating that it had evolutionists and creationists sitting side by side and that was fine. I'm not sure what to make of that but guess it was an attempt to keep as many members as poss.
cathy
 
Posts: 3665
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:51 pm
Location: Redditch

Re: Methodists clearly against creationism?

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:26 pm

What about "Primitive Methodists"? A cynic might think they must be creationist to the core! :twisted:
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
User avatar
Brian Jordan
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4208
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Methodists clearly against creationism?

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:19 am

Brian Jordan wrote:What about "Primitive Methodists"? A cynic might think they must be creationist to the core! :twisted:


IIRC they disappeared before WW2, merging with mainstream Methodists.
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
User avatar
Roger Stanyard
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm


Return to Free For All

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

cron