Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

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Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:40 pm

Message as sent to a number of young Earth creationists (and others):


If you are a committed young Earth/Biblical creationist Christian, may I enlighten you as to some of the amazing and fantastical beliefs which those Christians who you look up to for scientific information hope that you will firmly adhere to?

- the very bushy 'tree of life' put forward by the evolutionary consensus in the international scientific community is the same thing as an 'orchard' of separate and distinct trees growing alongside one another as proposed by young Earth creationism.

- the 'ice age' (including any interglacials similar to the one we are now in, which you must either reject or else say happened during the one single 'ice age' that is all your Biblical timescale can allow for) is over and done with - ie what we are in now is not an interglacial at all.

- when the Bible told us that Jesus would be coming back 'quickly' or 'soon' it really meant that he would delay for more than another 2,000 years (in a universe which itself by such a time would be just 6,000 years old).

- all the scientists who view the fossil record merely as demonstrating that many different creatures, a large number which are now extinct, have lived and died in the history of the Earth are - when they reach such a conclusion - being wilfully ignorant of the obvious fact that the fossil record testifies to a recent worldwide, hill-covering, flood catastrophe as described in the book of Genesis (and described by 'creation scientists').

- all those who challenge young Earth creationism are either disobedient Christians, pretend Christians and 'wolves in sheep clothing', or 'atheists' who wilfully seek to suppress the truth of the Christian God's recent creation.

- however much or however little physical evidence you can muster to support your minority viewpoint about the history of the universe and the planet, you are perfectly entitled to call it 'science'.

- should opponents make detailed claims, or ask complicated and difficult questions, which might cause some other Biblical creationists to start to have doubts about their beliefs on origins, those opponents should be banned permanently from your websites and discussion fora.

- it is perfectly acceptable to make videos of evolutionists and old Earth believers which are edited in such a way as to make such scientists and those who accept their findings appear to be 'blind guides' who are simply following a man-made belief system that is devoid of any real evidence backing it up (if Ray Comfort's forthcoming 'Evolution vs God' documentary/polemic does such he should indeed be applauded by Biblical creationists).

- regardless of evidence, any scientific claims which directly contradict the Bible are false and are lies of Satan.

I hope this has been helpful in clarifying some of your beliefs for you (and others).
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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:44 pm

http://gracesalt.wordpress.com/2013/07/ ... t-blogger/

I have sent Tim the following comments (edit - by email):

"Tim
Glad to have offered you a theme for a blog post! I have something in
common with Ray Comfort.
With respect, your comments about evolution are garbage. It is NOT
'different trees'. Look it up.
With respect, your comments about interglacials and ice ages are also
garbage. Young Earth creationists do NOT side 'with the science' over
this issue they totally mangle it - and it is clear that you either
failed to understand my argument or are just ignoring it. In this day
and age there is no excuse for a YEC (of average intelligence which you
appear to possess as do I) and with internet access to remain ignorant
about science.
"I don't think I would say 'disobedient'. I would say 'inconsistent'
in their reasons for believing." I don't disagree. However, YEC Philip
Bell has concluded from scripture that these people aren't even
Christians in the first place.
http://creation.com/from-fables-to-truth
"It's not a game of who has more evidence." No - and I never said
that. It's a 'game' of whose belief has evidence that actually supports
it and who does not. If you don't have evidence that actually supports
your belief - based on scientific understanding not fantasy - then it
is pseudo-science that you believe in.
"The Bible is the standard by which we judge and/or filter ALL worldly
information because humans are fallible." Humans do not invent
scientific laws and processes, they discover them. They must be of God
if God exists.
If I am an 'atheist' I am also angry at how God has treated me over
the years (and treated others).
Ashley".
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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:39 am

I have always had trouble posting my comments under Tim's blogs, but have found I can now do this via my (virtually unused) Facebook account. I have linked to this thread and added "should be self-explanatory". The comment awaits moderation.
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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:28 pm

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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:10 pm

YEC: "So-called evolution is just devolution - no new information, no new structures, merely loss of information and loss of function."

Non-YEC: "I beg to differ."
http://puffthemutantdragon.wordpress.co ... ion-a-lie/
"Sometimes we even see a population of animals develop a new structure their ancestors didn’t have right before our very eyes...".
http://www.pnas.org/content/105/12/4792
Note the comment about digestive tract structure.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 112433.htm
"Examination of the lizard’s digestive tracts revealed something even more surprising. Eating more plants caused the development of new structures called cecal valves, designed to slow the passage of food by creating fermentation chambers in the gut, where microbes can break down the difficult to digest portion of plants. Cecal valves, which were found in hatchlings, juveniles and adults on Pod Mrcaru, have never been reported for this species, including the source population on Pod Kopiste".

YEC: "Oh! But that's not evolution, it's just post-flood rapid adaptation within kinds. See here."
http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... nList_1_10
"Certain structures important to the survival of an animal in one environment may not be retained in the population if they move to a different environment and the structure is no longer useful. However, the structure may reappear if conditions change and it then becomes important to survival."
You see it's not evolution at all! Not at all! It's just structures disappearing and then reappearing again!"
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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby Brian Jordan » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:40 pm

All this business of "kinds" wearies me. How do they reconcile their fragmentation with the ultimate "cellular kind"? Even slime moulds could have marched onto the ark, given time and who knows what Noah had on his boots?
Or am I wasting my breath trying to argue with "pillock kind"?
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby cathy » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:18 am

Speaking of slime mould - is Gove the stupidest thing on the planet or do any of the biologists here know of a unicellular organism that could replace him has head of education? BTW I mistyped my password twice (caps lock on) and had to answer a quiz to get on here. What is the second book of the bible - I got it wrong it isn't gospels.
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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby Peter Henderson » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:57 am

Dr. Jean Lightner


Isn't that yer woman that's a vet ? :lol:
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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:41 pm

Apparently so.
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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby Brian Jordan » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:39 pm

cathy wrote: BTW I mistyped my password twice (caps lock on) and had to answer a quiz to get on here. What is the second book of the bible.
So that's why we keep getting creationists turning up here - they're showing off!
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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:03 pm

As sent:


http://biblicalgeology.net/blog/prelimi ... d/#respond
Do you think we are in an inter-glacial or do you claim (despite today's polar ice caps) that both glaciations AND inter-glacials are in the past?
And how did the glaciers melt so quickly at the end of your 'rapid ice age'?
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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:26 pm

Because Tas Walker teaches scientific falsehoods for Jesus, I suggest that in his answer to me he has tied himself up in knots and contradicted himself.
http://biblicalgeology.net/blog/prelimi ... um-period/

I have just submitted a further comment (though it has vanished into thin air once again ie I do not get a message saying it is 'awaiting moderation'):
"Thanks. If you claim that there has only been one 'ice age' (meaning ice age glaciation) as you and Oard do (contrary to the evidence though I will merely speak of the Pleistocene here) then you either have to reject the notion of inter-glacials (like today) during it or must assume lots of 'rapid' inter-glacials during that 'ice age' as you appear to do and as Richard Fangrad and Calvin Smith did in a CMI video I watched recently. By doing the latter - and if you suggest (contrary to the views of mainstream scientists who think ongoing orbital factors over many millennia trigger glaciations) that times of much larger ice sheets are all in the past - then you are saying that what we are now in is 'not' an inter-glacial (despite polar ice caps which have not always existed) because inter-glacials were what occurred during Earth's 'single' 'post-flood' ice age. Thus the logic of the YEC position (ONE 'ice age' in Earth's past) is that we are NO LONGER in an inter-glacial - contrary to your claim that "it is a glacial period on the Earth".
I also see no obvious mechanism for the rapid melting of glaciers from glaciation levels to their present levels that your compressed timescale requires (manmade global warming would not be able to account for it as that is a recent phenomenon)."
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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby a_haworthroberts » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:58 pm

YECs claim that the (Pleistocene) ice age was triggered by a unique combination of circumstances that will never be repeated - indirect consequences of claimed phenomena accompanying 'Noah's Flood'. Mainstream scientists strongly disagree (though there have been periods of Earth history with NO ice ages and NO ice caps or frozen ocean at the poles, and the reason for that may be unclear unless it was naturally enhanced levels of greenhouse gases).

I should have asked him whether he thinks there will ever be another ice age glaciation even if you assume that manmade global warming is occurring (is the YEC answer that Jesus will return first).
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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:17 pm

When I posted the link to this thread under Walker's blog post just now I DID get a message on my screen saying it "is awaiting moderation".
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Re: Amazing and fantastical beliefs of Biblical creationists

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:25 pm

http://biblicalgeology.net/blog/prelimi ... mment-6750
"The mechanism is the cooling of the oceans."

Ah, now I see!
YOUNG EARTH CREATIONISM IS THE INFALLIBLE SCIENTIFIC TRUTH AND THE ANSWER TO LIFE, THE UNIVERSE AND EVERYTHING.
DEBATE OVER.


Or at least debate was 'over' here:
http://www.wearesmrt.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12258
https://www.facebook.com/AnswersMegaCon ... 4125783970
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