Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

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Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby cathy » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:08 pm

Is nothing sacred? First creationists infiltrate the keepers of our nations heritage - the NT. Now it looks like Paul is infiltrating the very bastions of British tradition, the WI.

Doing my monthly check of his doings on BCM to ensure he isn't sneaking into my locale and amongst the many sad churches that he is regularly discrediting I find this date in his diary
Tuesday 29 October 2013, 7.30 pm, “Mount St Helens: Monument to Catastrophe”, Cambridge Federation of Women’s Institutes, Oakington Road, Girton CB3 0Q.


A quick check of the Cambridge Federation of Women's Institutes reveals this on their events page
Mount St Helens; Monument to Catastophe


Date:
Tuesday 29 October 2013 - 7.30pm

Venue:
WI Office


Come and hear about the explosive eruption of Mount St Helens in the state of Washington USA, on 18th May, 1980. The world could not believe the devastation caused by such a small volcano. But these dramatic events also provided scientists with a fascinating small “laboratory” for the understanding of the catastrophic process that have shaped the Earth’s surface in the geological past.
Prepare to have your thinking overturned!
If we have time Paul will be very happy to look at any members’ rocks or fossils

Booking form with your sec


Now call me old fashioned but I really don't think the WI should be hosting con artistes and lying to their members. After all we all know that Paul Garner is a stranger to the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth. And we all know that, unlike that rare thing an honest creationist, Paul is no stranger to the mystic art of lying thru his back teeth to pretend his narrow Genesis obsessed religious beliefs (which I would have no qualms about him talking about honestly - if he had any remote concept of that word) have some kind of scientific backing :evil: :evil:

What is Paul likely to say I ask myself. Lets guess at
'Hey I'm a member of the geological society of London me.
I have a qualification.
Look Mount St Helens was a catastrophe therefore this throws serious doubt on the held belief that between catastrophes there are periods of time when there aren't catastrophes which also shape our geological landscape - overturn your thinking forthwith.
This throws some doubt on the ideas currently held by geologists that the Earth is ancient and instead suggests it is new and all features could just as easily been formed by catastrophes - or especially one large worldwide series of catastrophes 4000 years ago.
It's not a popular idea cos scientists are fixed in their thinking
Oh and I've published something
And here are some geological terms which I will misuse to fool you into thinking I'm an authority igneous, sedimentary inclines and so on"

(sorry exhausted my stock of geological terms there - Paul will have more because he will have access to a dictionary of geology.

What is Paul not likely to say? Perhaps
"The geological society of London has published a disclaimer distancing itself, on behalf of hundreds of thousands of REAL Earth scientists worldwide, from the idiotic nonsense I'm about to bamboozle you with.
I'm driven by a purely religious motivation, employed by a purely religious organisation and at the extreme lunatic fringe end of religion.
Nothing I'm about to tell you makes the slightest difference to ideas currently held by geologists that the Earth is ancient and is merely me desperately clinging to anything.
The only way in which the other scientists are fixed in their thinking is in some kind of rigid expectation of facts and data and evidence and making sure you consider all of it not just the bits you can bend to suit.
Real geologists think I'm an idiot and embarrassment to the profession (tho of course I don't work in the profession cos I'm actually a professional creationist.
I'm not going to tell you the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth but my own specially cherry picked versions relying on the fact that you are unlikely to be geologist.
In fact there are no complete facts in my talk, merely some half ones mixed with supposition.
I may have a qualification but it is one gained by ignoring what I was taught, not letting on to those teaching me what I really thought lest I fail and of course lying to pass the exam by pretending to agree with the real science rather than letting them see my pseudoscience.
Whatever I've published - none of it relates to or claims any of the things I'm going to pretend to you it does.
Oh and the bigger global catastrophe I'm claiming could have happened - its Noahs ark and I'm also working on how many dinos he managed to fit it ha ha suckers."
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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:23 pm

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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:35 pm

I suspect most WI members might be not traditional enough for Paul Garner rather than too traditional and needing their thinking to be 'overturned'.

But then again: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/780486.stm
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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby Peter Henderson » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:51 pm

Oh dear Cathy.

If I had a pound for every time a YEC says to me "what about Mt St. Helens".

However, I'd imagine most WI members aren't going to be very savy about either geology or the claims young Earth creationism makes on it, and as Ashley says, he's probably going to push set in stone big time.

This was exactly my point to others elsewhere, that you really do need to make allowances for Garner's target audiences in situations like this.

Still, I'm a Christian so who am I to criticise YECs :cry:
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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby Brian Jordan » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:50 pm

Jam, Jerusalem... and now Jenesis.
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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby jon_12091 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:09 am

Peter Henderson wrote:However, I'd imagine most WI members aren't going to be very savy about either geology or the claims young Earth creationism makes on it, and as Ashley says, he's probably going to push set in stone big time.

Its in Cambridge so it might be suprising....
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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby cathy » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:47 pm

Its in Cambridge so it might be suprising....

It's also a non expert audience yet again (surprise, surprise, surprise). It is possible there would be a geologist there to challenge but its low - and no matter how clever without that expertise there is no real way to challenge him. Perhaps an expert in creationist liars could throw him as well, but they too are rare.

Plus this is Paul Garner, he won't be mentioning Noah as the catastrophe, nor I'd guess 6000 years. Those I think are reserved for his church audience. My bet is throw doubt on ancient Earth and geological science and pretend there is debate!!! That is his tactic outside of churches. I've listed what I guess he'll say and miss out and that is what I think the gist will be.

How many will buy it is the thing? And how the @@@@ did he wangle and invite. Wife a member perhaps?

Anyway I still hold that it is wrong of the WI to deliberately mislead their members! I think it's morally wrong of churches but there is far less leeway for complaint there. That has to come from within. But the WI is a different matter, they are a national organisation and for one affiliated group to invite a known dissembler in is probably not going to please them as a body at all. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: Unless of course I can do my talk to our local group telling them if they all give me £1000 I'll be able to access £10000000000000000000000000 in a Nigerian lottery to pay them back ha ha. :evil:
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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby cathy » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:15 pm

Also on the BCM news and blog part of its site is a link to the 2013 international conference on creationism ha ha
where paul has submitted a paper on the baraminological analysis that provided evidence of the discontinuity between birds and dinos despite the claims of real science (well he used the term evolutionary science but as that is JUST science I guess I guess I should have just called it science).
Along with co-authors Todd Wood and Marcus Ross, Paul Garner published a paper at this conference entitled “Baraminological Analysis of Jurassic and Cretaceous Avialae.” This paper provided evidence of discontinuity between dinosaurs and birds, contrary to evolutionary claims. Absracts of all the papers and details of how to order the processings can be found on the ICC website

Wow, just wow. Perhaps he could present that to the WI next rather than bothering relevant scientists? Perhaps they could peer review it for him? They do judge cake competitions after all - tho cakes are generally held to be real unlike Garner's claims so maybe not.

Abstract: The baraminic status of Jurassic and Cretaceous Avialae was evaluated using statistical baraminology. Baraminic distance correlation (BDC) and three dimensional multidimensional scaling (MDS) was applied to six previously published character matrices. The results reveal discontinuities between most Avialae and the Deinonychosauria (Troodontidae + Dromaeosauridae) and little evidence of continuity between modern birds and dinosaurs, suggesting that recent claims that statistical baraminology supports the evolution of birds from dinosaurs are misplaced. Nevertheless, we did find positive BDC and MDS clustering of some Avialae and deinonychosaurs in four of our analyses, suggesting that at least some Jurassic and Cretaceous Avialae may be clustered with dinosaurs. This observation raises the interesting philosophical question: what is a bird?

what is a bird indeed and on what day will those clustered with dinos have been created? Flying things day or walky things day? Still waiting for an answer on the day of creation of amphibians from Paul as well.

Also representing the UK at the 'international conference of loony liars - and available to download as a recording was our own Andy 'feather boy' McIntosh
•Tuesday, 8/6 - Steve Taylor and Andy McIntosh, "Fight the Good Fight - Strategy and A Look from Across the Pond"

But I really didn't have the heart or will to wait for the recording to download to hear the very confusing mumbo jumbo of our Andy giving his unreal take on life in the UK.

Good to see the Brits represented tho - or rather NOT good. Please let them all go to America where they seem less unwelcome and can't bother us anymore and leave us all alone :cry:
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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:33 pm

cathy wrote:Wow, just wow. Perhaps he could present that to the WI next rather than bothering relevant scientists? Perhaps they could peer review it for him? They do judge cake competitions after all - tho cakes are generally held to be real unlike Garner's claims so maybe not.
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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:50 pm

cathy wrote:Also on the BCM news and blog part of its site is a link to the 2013 international conference on creationism ha ha
where paul has submitted a paper on the baraminological analysis that provided evidence of the discontinuity between birds and dinos despite the claims of real science (well he used the term evolutionary science but as that is JUST science I guess I guess I should have just called it science).
Along with co-authors Todd Wood and Marcus Ross, Paul Garner published a paper at this conference entitled “Baraminological Analysis of Jurassic and Cretaceous Avialae.” This paper provided evidence of discontinuity between dinosaurs and birds, contrary to evolutionary claims. Absracts of all the papers and details of how to order the processings can be found on the ICC website

Wow, just wow. Perhaps he could present that to the WI next rather than bothering relevant scientists? Perhaps they could peer review it for him? They do judge cake competitions after all - tho cakes are generally held to be real unlike Garner's claims so maybe not.

Abstract: The baraminic status of Jurassic and Cretaceous Avialae was evaluated using statistical baraminology. Baraminic distance correlation (BDC) and three dimensional multidimensional scaling (MDS) was applied to six previously published character matrices. The results reveal discontinuities between most Avialae and the Deinonychosauria (Troodontidae + Dromaeosauridae) and little evidence of continuity between modern birds and dinosaurs, suggesting that recent claims that statistical baraminology supports the evolution of birds from dinosaurs are misplaced. Nevertheless, we did find positive BDC and MDS clustering of some Avialae and deinonychosaurs in four of our analyses, suggesting that at least some Jurassic and Cretaceous Avialae may be clustered with dinosaurs. This observation raises the interesting philosophical question: what is a bird?

what is a bird indeed and on what day will those clustered with dinos have been created? Flying things day or walky things day? Still waiting for an answer on the day of creation of amphibians from Paul as well.

Also representing the UK at the 'international conference of loony liars - and available to download as a recording was our own Andy 'feather boy' McIntosh
•Tuesday, 8/6 - Steve Taylor and Andy McIntosh, "Fight the Good Fight - Strategy and A Look from Across the Pond"

But I really didn't have the heart or will to wait for the recording to download to hear the very confusing mumbo jumbo of our Andy giving his unreal take on life in the UK.

Good to see the Brits represented tho - or rather NOT good. Please let them all go to America where they seem less unwelcome and can't bother us anymore and leave us all alone :cry:



Hopefully his audience may have watched the Mary Schweitzer Horizon programme (though the idiot BBC put up an Ultimate Swarms with George McGavin on at the very same time it was first shown).
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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby Peter Henderson » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:04 pm

Anyway I still hold that it is wrong of the WI to deliberately mislead their members!


Might be an idea to find out who in the WI made the invite Cathy. Most likely they're a YEC.

This is how these things start.

Somebody takes it upon themselves to be an expert on the subject of creation, which generally means they're clueless about science, or if they're well educated in the subject, lying.
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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby Steve660 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:09 pm

I expect he'll tell the usual fibs about recently erupted Mt St Helen's rocks giving radiometric dates of millions of years, even though it has been answered ad nauseam. I've noticed before with creationists that it does not matter how many times an argument is demolished, they just keep on using it.
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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby Michael » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:34 pm

Steve660 wrote:I expect he'll tell the usual fibs about recently erupted Mt St Helen's rocks giving radiometric dates of millions of years, even though it has been answered ad nauseam. I've noticed before with creationists that it does not matter how many times an argument is demolished, they just keep on using it.


Steve, I can't believe that that you have noticed it before :x Does it often happen?
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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby cathy » Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:16 pm

Might be an idea to find out who in the WI made the invite Cathy. Most likely they're a YEC.


Not sure how you'd do that unless you're a member of that particular branch - but I'd say 'most likely' is an understatement. I'd say 100% bone fida guarenteed YEC otherwise Garner would not come onto their radar at all. My guess is a YEC WI member. If he lives in that region I'g guess it's either his wife or someone from a church he's lied to who is a member :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: I can't imagine anyone outside of that knowing enough about him to ask or wanting to. The general concensus of those outside of YECism is it is stupidity for morons. Nobody comes to it from outside of religion after all, and many of those inside religion accept it cos told they have to.

Either way I think the branch should be named and shamed as hosting liars. It is not an honest matter of opinions or even an interesting debatable area in scienc, but an outright falsehood and con!! :evil: :evil:

After all if it were an honest talk the advert wouldn't contain this line
Prepare to have your thinking overturned!


The man really has NO conscience at all does he. How on Earth does he square what he does (bullying, lying and frightening people) with claiming to be a Christian?
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Re: Is Paul Garner infiltrating the WI

Postby Brian Jordan » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:52 pm

cathy wrote:After all if it were an honest talk the advert wouldn't contain this line
Prepare to have your thinking overturned!
Well, if it were Leeds I might think it was "Old Time Varieties Night" with "Prepare to be amazed!" and prestidigitation. As it is, they'll just get the prestidigitation. Or better, legerdemain: "A show of skill or deceitful cleverness". The Victorians knew it well.
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