Canyon under the Greenland ice sheet

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Canyon under the Greenland ice sheet

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:50 pm

Brian recently suggested that if the YECs addressed this topic, a new thread could be started. Well, here goes:
http://www.piltdownsuperman.com/2013/09 ... anyon.html
http://crev.info/2013/08/grand-canyon-d ... discovery/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23866810

Says Comedy Bob Sorensen:
"The existence of this huge canyon under the ice defies geological assumptions about the age of the Earth and ice ages. Instead, it may very well be a source of information for Young Earth Creationists."
Total b******t and evidence that some YECs are either lying to themselves and readers of the worldwide web or they simply do not understand the implications of their cherished science rejecting belief system that insists Earth is just 6,000 years old and was totally flooded around 4,300 years ago (with water, not ice or snow, even at the Poles).

Says David Coppedge - whose article Bob links to and who clearly does know something about science:
"Scientists are surprised that it has persisted through the ice ages". The BBC article does hint at that, among other things. Since YECs also claim there has been one (short and rapid ha ha) ice age, this is of no help to their cause. Perhaps the greater surprise is that such a large (hidden) feature has only now been discovered. So much for the only true science being 'observational' science.

Mr Coppedge also links to Science magazine:
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/341/6149/997.abstract
'Paleofluvial Mega-Canyon Beneath the Central Greenland Ice Sheet'.
He also provides this link:
http://www.livescience.com/39289-greenl ... vered.html
Which informs the reader: "The canyon predates the ice sheet that permanently covered Greenland about 1.8 million years ago".
And this link:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... vironment/
Which gives a somewhat different timescale: "Before the land was completely glaciated at least four million years ago, melt from partial ice cover likely flowed through the bedrock canyon. Since then, the features of the land have survived glaciation without significant erosion".
And this link too:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 141632.htm

So what does Mr Coppedge get from all this? He implies that the scientific paper asks "Why didn’t glaciers smooth it out and obliterate it? "Indeed, none of the profiles are typical of glacially eroded valleys," the paper states. "…The canyon follows a meandering path more typical of a large river system". I can only assume that snow filled and eventually buried the pre-existing canyon and then any glacial action mostly took place above the canyon - leaving a v-shaped rather than a u-shaped feature. But would welcome comments by others who understand geology better than I.

And that is it. Unsurprising since this is a stunning falsification of YEC-ism (unless you believe the feature was formed supernaturally or miraculously).

This is also more evidence that Comedy Bob is talking through his backside. No wonder he does not allow comments on his blogs.

I'm slightly surprised that Bob has not informed us that the canyon was formed during Noah's Flood and the ice sheet was mostly formed in a rapid 500 year ice age immediately afterwards. And that these explanations are more plausible than any explanations put forward by the international scientific community.

Will we also be treated to an article from AiG at News to Know? Or from Tas Walker on Biblical Geology? I'm not betting on either.

Nor one by any other YEC (apart from Petersen perhaps) affirming Bob's claims.
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Re: Canyon under the Greenland ice sheet

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:40 pm

Ashley wrote:I'm slightly surprised that Bob has not informed us that the canyon was formed during Noah's Flood and the ice sheet was mostly formed in a rapid 500 year ice age immediately afterwards. And that these explanations are more plausible than any explanations put forward by the international scientific community.
Oh, they'll be working on it Ashley. Just a few here who couldn't resist breaking cover before they'd got their excuses agreed among themselves. May be best not to refute their provisional nonsense yet - let them freeze their dogma into a Greenland Grotto before we chisel them out.
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Re: Canyon under the Greenland ice sheet

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:00 pm

A quick Google search has turned up this:
http://discovercreation.org/blog/2013/0 ... iscovered/

Does anyone know whether the Alpha Omega Institute are 'young Earthers' rather than old Earth creationists?

Although most of the YEC community may be tempted to ignore this canyon, the real Grand Canyon is regarded - by them and nobody else - as some kind of YEC icon and 'testament' to Noah's (worldwide) Flood.
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Re: Canyon under the Greenland ice sheet

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:27 pm

http://www.discovercreation.org/documents/Readmore.htm
I suspect they are 'young' Earth.
"Shallow-water marine creatures would be swept up and deposited first, followed by fish, and later by amphibians, reptiles, and mammals. Some discrepancies would be due to localized conditions, but this scenario explains the general order found in the fossil record, as well as the fact that marine fossils are found throughout the geologic column".
Why? Didn't the humans at the time of Noah live near the coast?
If the geologic record suggested mammals appeared before reptiles, YEC apologists would claim the flood killed mammals first and then reptiles. Sigh.
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Re: Canyon under the Greenland ice sheet

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:20 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:Does anyone know whether the Alpha Omega Institute are 'young Earthers' rather than old Earth creationists?
Difficult to tell, at a glance. They're certainly prolific anti-evolutionists though.
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Re: Canyon under the Greenland ice sheet

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:07 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:
a_haworthroberts wrote:Does anyone know whether the Alpha Omega Institute are 'young Earthers' rather than old Earth creationists?
Difficult to tell, at a glance. They're certainly prolific anti-evolutionists though.


I was going by this final para:
"The Bible presents a credible scenario for the formation of Grand Canyon, the rock layers and the fossils they contain. We believe it is more consistent with the evidence than traditional long-age, evolutionary, uniformitarian models. The Canyon truly is an amazing testimony to the Biblical account of earth history."
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Re: Canyon under the Greenland ice sheet

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:26 pm

Have added the following comment under the Coppedge piece, responding to two anti-scientific comments already on display (I assume the comment won't be removed but I'm adding it here just in case):

"Ray You mean evidence for a very old Earth.
jyjones Were you there?
Ashley"
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Re: Canyon under the Greenland ice sheet

Postby Brian Jordan » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:25 pm

Reconstructionists say the darndest things, too.
Look as the amazing graphs here:
http://www.kjvbible.org/greenland_ice_sheet.html
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:15 pm

Interesting:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24007339

(As I think is this - the story has finally made the UK press: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/s ... -forecasts)
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:44 pm

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/
Hurricane Humberto hurried not in its debut.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:17 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:Interesting:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24007339

(As I think is this - the story has finally made the UK press: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/s ... -forecasts)



http://biblicalgeology.net/blog/tamu-ma ... ahs-flood/
This is the feeble response by Tas Walker to that recent story about a massive extinct undersea volcano that has been discovered. Oh, and Large Igneous Provinces all erupted underwater. So insists Mr Walker. "This volcanic eruption was one of many similar eruptions all over the planet at this time as the oceans were opening up. The volume of lava emplaced during these eruptions was enormous, and they are called Large Igneous Provinces, or LIPs for short.
The eruptions for the Tamu Massif took place underwater and the volcano is still under water. However, even the LIPs that are now on land would have erupted underwater at that time during the Flood."

I look forward to Tas' peer-reviewed science paper in Nature magazine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_igneous_province

Meanwhile I've emailed the blog post to the Dr William Sager who is mentioned.
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