Er when do YECs say that rapid unbiblical ice age occurred?

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Er when do YECs say that rapid unbiblical ice age occurred?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:59 pm

Apparently it was after the Tower of Babel was (mostly) built and then God confused humanity's languages and humans began to be scattered over the face of the whole Earth rather than be concentrated in the plain of Shinar (probably in modern day Iraq).
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV (Genesis 11.)
http://www.icr.org/article/519/
"The Ice Age was occurring during the centuries following Babel, resulting in harsh climates in Europe, a well-watered Egypt, and a lower sea-level allowing global migration across land bridges such as between Siberia and Alaska. Without Babel and the dispersion, in our thinking, we would be hard pressed to devise a coherent view of human history. With it the facts fall into place and our appreciation for Scripture increases".

Yet I thought the 'rapid' ice age was supposed to have begun straight after Noah's Flood ended, because - YECs claim - massive volcanism and warm oceans accompanying the Flood are meant to have helped cause this unbiblical 500 year ice age.

Yet it would appear that the survivors of the flood moved from where they were based (further west according to Genesis 11 verse 1) to Babel and half-built a city and a tower before the ice age began to make itself felt anywhere on the Earth. Also, Genesis 10 in the NIV Bible states: "These are the clans of Noah’s sons, according to their lines of descent, within their nations. From these the nations spread out over the earth after the flood". This could imply that humans only spread across the Earth after the descendants of Noah's sons had been born.

Any comments would be welcome.
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Re: Er when do YECs say that rapid unbiblical ice age occurr

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:20 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:Any comments would be welcome.
Hogwarts. Oh, sorry - hogwash.
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Er when do YECs say that rapid unbiblical ice age occurred?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:14 am

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... al-history

You would NEVER guess from this that most YEC apologists insist that the 'rapid' ice age fiction (not even hinted at in the Bible because the Bible writers had never heard of such a thing) they say occurred within the last 5,000 years was directly triggered by the Genesis Flood and other claimed phenomena associated with it.

"Indeed, forests grew on Antarctica and the Arctic before ice began to form. Drilling down through Antarctica’s ice sheet, scientists have found in sediment layers beneath the ice sheet fossils of a subtropical rainforest, complete with palm trees and macadamia trees. For these to grow, the land would have to be frost-free for a brief time after the Flood." A 'brief' time?

"So it is reasonable to conclude that the start of the Ice Age in the Northern Hemisphere (the Pleistocene) roughly coincides with the Babel judgment, around a century or so after the Flood (perhaps 2250 BC)." So the 'rapid' ice age, triggered by 'very warm' oceans and volcanic ash clouds blocking the sunlight, took around 100 years after the floodwaters receded to get started? Doesn't sound at all 'rapid' to me. Nor feasible.

"The Bible does not reveal much about the biology and geology of the Ice Age...". The understatement of the year.

"It is hard to imagine such extreme changes in weather, landscapes, and vegetation during the rapid Ice Age and the years that followed...". Especially since that is (a) complete fiction and (b) not found in the Bible either.

"Why did people wait so long after Babel to build cities and farm again? Problems included the tiny populations, the threat of skirmishes, and the changing climates. We also know from the fossil record that they faced constant flooding, dust storms, supervolcanoes, massive earthquakes, meteorites, and downpours of snow or rain on a scale never before seen." We know NO such thing. Rather science-rejecting young Earth creationist ideologues first assume that Genesis is infallible history and - having done that - try to fit in all the catastrophes that have ever afflicted parts of the Earth into a 'biblical, post-Flood, timescale'. Including very ancient supervolcanic eruptions, ice age glaciations, local floods, major earthquakes and meteorite impacts. It does not work.

This also fits ill with God's promise to Noah after the Flood ended, as recorded at Genesis 8 verse 22 (NIV): "“As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night will never cease.”".

"We still have a lot to learn." YECs - by starting with Bible 'history' instead of the evidence - will be lucky if they learn anything at all about the past.

"If mankind would only take God’s Word to heart, it would transform our thinking in every area, and open up amazing new vistas in science and archaeology." I think science is doing just fine - and without the YEC straitjacket that dogmatic YECs try to place upon it and the Bible.
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Er when do YECs say that rapid unbiblical ice age occurred?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:28 am

Some rather more rational and realistic Christians - who are embarrassed by the blatant make-believe of intolerant, science-undermining young Earth creationists - take issue with some of their more illogical and unscientific pronouncements. 'Geochristian' being one such blogger.
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... bible.html (Having just read this for the first time - I think - I gather some supervolcano eruptions occurred during earlier ice age glaciations of the Pleistocene Epoch, as well as much further back in geological time.)
http://geochristian.wordpress.com/2013/ ... -ice-ages/ (I think I flagged this here previously.)
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringo ... onism.html (I also saw this too when it first appeared.)
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Er when do YECs say that rapid unbiblical ice age occurred?

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:47 am

I note this bit from Geochristian's critique:
"Human expansion. Humans had to multiply, differentiate into races, and migrate from Ararat and Mesopotamia to the entire world in 250 years. The poster’s timeline has humans entering Australia around 2150 B.C. and North America around 2100 B.C. This happened while supervolcanoes were erupting and either snow was accumulating by tens to hundreds of meters per year over parts of North America, or the landscape was being flooded by rapidly melting ice sheets. No wonder the boy to the right is running!"

Ray Comfort should note the amount of utterly unbiblical faith YEC-ism seems to require.
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Re: Er when do YECs say that rapid unbiblical ice age occurr

Postby EvoAnth » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:41 pm

AiG have a handy pdf on the subject, showing that the ice age actually occurred 100 years after the flood (the same time as Babel) and lasted for about 250 years. Of course, this contradicts the common argument that the flood was responsible for the ice age.

The reason for this inconsistency is, of course, because the whole thing is being extracted from their rear end with no relation to reality.
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Re: Er when do YECs say that rapid unbiblical ice age occurr

Postby Peter Henderson » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:45 pm

The ice age ended on July 19th :wink:
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Re: Er when do YECs say that rapid unbiblical ice age occurr

Postby Peter Henderson » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:47 pm

Actually, I was once asked by a YEC how do we know there was more than one ice age.
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