ASE conference and the Qur'an

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ASE conference and the Qur'an

Postby cathy » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:15 pm

I have just returned from this years ASE conference, because it was in Brum uni, laden down with freebies. Now I was very surprised to find in my welcome bag of freebies (an impractical bag with an overlong strap, but useful none the less) a small booklet called ' The Qur'an & Modern Science, compatible or incompatible" By a Dr Zakir Naik. Published by the Islamic Dawah Centre International 6 Alum Rock Road, Birmingham B* 1JB.

I've not had a chance to plough thru it but tho it doesn't seem to mention evolution, under botany the headings are Plants created in pairs males and female,
fruits created in pairs male and female,
Everything Made in Pairs male and female.
The section on embryology is even more bizarre, Man created from a drop emitted between the back bone and ribs.

I'm not sure what I will find when I get to read it. It may well be a good attempt to reconcile the Qur'an with modern science as per boi logos. Or not. I got a colleagues copy in the end, so I could send one to bcse as well - should they need to enquire why ASE was giving it out to attending teachers.

There was also a stall on Islam's contribution to science, which on the surface looked innocuous, but I'm not sure how relevant at a exhibition run for science educators (not RE) by a science education society. Grabbed a leaflet on the way past but no time to talk to stall person as on way to talk.

Also of note was something from the biochemical society called sciberbrain. Perfect for KS 3 & 4. The bit that I was interested in was
Need up to date resources on scinecd in the news: Try our free slide shows on stem cells, genetic engineering, brain chemistry,vaccinations, drug trials, evolution
With free resources to get students talking about controversial applications. This will be scientific from the stall it was on. But never keen when evolution and controversial appear on same leaflet. website is
http://www.sciberbrain.org

Lastly the biology teacher attended and interesting talk on human evolution (devout Christian biology teacher - no issues with evolution at all) She said it was fascinating the new stuff. They now no longer think we evolved from chimp like ancestors but from something more like orang utangs and reached up with long arms to get to fruit. Wish I'd gone but had been confined to chemistry talks by my bosses. :evil:
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Re: ASE conference and the Qur'an

Postby cathy » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:50 pm

Hm I've now had a bit of a look at the sciberbrain website and I'm not sure I'm completely happy.

The science is fine but the opinions bit not so sure. It includes things like should creationism be taught with a link to 4thought programme discussed here some time ago on the topic. Plus a survey done, which refers to ID as a theory. The survey is fine and done by the ncse in the US so the question is relevant. However for KS3/4, any mention of ID as a theory rather, or even a valid opinion, is wrong. I'm not sure this site should be using such language.

Plus the ASE itself has said that ID/creationism do not qualify for discussions about science as they do NOT qualify as science, even bad science.

The discussion part of the evolution section also seems to be about the above opinions which I think gives a credibility they do not have.

1.Find some people to have a discussion with (4 – 8 is perfect)
2.Go back to 'some opinions' and pick an opinion to discuss
3.Come up with some open-ended questions and vote on which question would be the most interesting to discuss
4.Start off by getting one person to ensure everyone is clear about the question and another to say why they think it is interesting
5.Take turns to discuss your views and try to follow on from what was said before.
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Re: ASE conference and the Qur'an

Postby jon_12091 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:26 pm

cathy wrote:I have just returned from this years ASE conference, because it was in Brum uni, laden down with freebies. Now I was very surprised to find in my welcome bag of freebies (an impractical bag with an overlong strap, but useful none the less) a small booklet called ' The Qur'an & Modern Science, compatible or incompatible" By a Dr Zakir Naik. Published by the Islamic Dawah Centre International 6 Alum Rock Road, Birmingham B* 1JB.

A thirty-second google suggests dodgy, verging on the very dodgy, for both the author and the charity. Will look later.
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Re: ASE conference and the Qur'an

Postby Brian Jordan » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:15 pm

Well, Theresa May doesn't think much of Zakir Naik - she banned him from the UK in 2010 for "unacceptable behaviour".
He also goes in for unreasonable pseudo-scientific apologetics, claiming that the Koran contains all manner of scientific wisdom only recently discovered by modern science. The pamphlet that Cathy has seems to be this one, so you can decide for yourself whether it's drivel or not! Lots of people have decided that it is, by the way!
https://archive.org/details/TheQuranAndModernScienceCompatibleOrIncompatible.pdf
Pamphlet or not, you can hear him spouting creationism here:
http://www.irtiqa-blog.com/2009/05/zakir-naiks-rant-against-evolution.html
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Re: ASE conference and the Qur'an

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:31 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:Well, Theresa May doesn't think much of Zakir Naik - she banned him from the UK in 2010 for "unacceptable behaviour".


Sigh. He seems to be yet another fundamentlaist ideological bigot. Oh, and his title "Dr" refers to him being a medical doctor.
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Re: ASE conference and the Qur'an

Postby cathy » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:36 pm

https://archive.org/details/TheQuranAndModernScienceCompatibleOrIncompatible.pdf

Yep that is it!!!

I really don't know how or why it got included, but it was in every goodie bag given out on Friday at least (and probably other days as well) alongside all the real sponsored stuff you get. Adverts for real textbooks and resources, mouse mats with periodic tables, pens and mugs with adverts on etc. All in a proper canvas bag clearly sponsored by ASE, the exam board OCR and Scientific and Chemical who supply most of our chemicals and equipment and are big educational suppliers :evil: :evil: :evil: Given to every single teacher and technician who registered on that day. And there were hundreds - more if you consider the conference goes on for a week.

I am now really annoyed and think something should be done. In addition there was a stall there that I didn't really get much chance to look at, detailing Islams place in science. Not sure how that fits in when they really mena scientists who were Muslims not Islamic science! As per the same argument used by Christian creationists when what they really mean is scientists who were Christians not Christian science :evil:

Whatever - neither should have been there :evil: Professor Alice Roberts is the chairperson of ASE this year. She was doing a talk. I can't imagine she'd be best pleased. It does go against ASEs take that religion is not science.
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Re: ASE conference and the Qur'an

Postby cathy » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:16 am

The pamphlet on the Qur'an should not have been given out.

However having looked at the stuff from the apparent Muslim stall that looks to be completely separate and completely legit. It was from this organisation
www.CE4tF.org
and is just an attempt to include science from all cultures and promote social cohesion and inclusion. More a Jim Al Khalili style approach - acknowledging the roles of Arabic and Chinese and Indian scientists and mathematicians to real science. Newton standing on the shoulders of giants and all that rather than proselytising.

But the Naik pamphlet is still most definitely NOT science and should not have been in our goodie bags!!!
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Re: ASE conference and the Qur'an

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:42 am

I've only skimmed the thread, but this is the website of The Biochemical Society:
http://www.biochemistry.org/default.aspx
Looks fine to me. According to Wikipedia they are a Learned Society (and based in a building named Charles Darwin House).

Looking at this bit of that other website, I did not come across anything alarming and am certain that both YECs and OECs would want to criticise it!
http://www.sciberbrain.org/standard-level/evolution
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Re: ASE conference and the Qur'an

Postby jon_12091 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:03 am

cathy wrote:The pamphlet on the Qur'an should not have been given out.

A letter to ASE perhaps? My guess is they don't look to hard at fee-paying exhibitors when organising these conferences as they are useful in defraying costs for the membership.
I do wonder if a Christian apologetics group would have been so readily offered a stall and perhaps more tellingly would any of them had the cash even if they wanted to?
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Re: ASE conference and the Qur'an

Postby Brian Jordan » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:30 pm

It would be interesting to muse on the content of a stall extolling the virtues of French science. Perhaps even more so Russian science - I once had a very interesting run-in with some of their little-known work.
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