Creation Ministries International frauds: just another day

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Creation Ministries International frauds: just another day

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:28 pm

They proclaimed on their Facebook page earlier today "many scientists reject the big bang hypothesis because of its manifest inconsistencies" - and posted some 20 YEAR OLD propaganda from Attenborough-hater Russell Grigg in support of their proclamation:
http://creation.com/the-mind-of-god-and-the-big-bang

But then, OOPS. It rather looks like the wider universe really DID pre-date planet Earth, as science already suspected, - and Genesis 1 got it wrong AGAIN ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26605974
"Scientists say they have extraordinary new evidence to support a Big Bang Theory for the origin of the Universe..."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03ymfqt (one of the scientists interviewed by Paxman mentioned inconsistencies or something very similar and offered an explanation - if I listen AGAIN on iplayer I might even grasp it :) )

Meanwhile bigot Don Batten is tonight trying to tell 'evolutionists' what they should not be claiming (no mention of the Big Bang here as far as I can make out - which is lucky for him):
http://creation.com/arguments-evolution ... ld-not-use
(CMI claim to agree with 'observational' science only yet around 30% of their evidences for a 'young Earth' are on based on what may be happening in places outside the earth that no human being has EVER visited:
http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth)

Meanwhile in the Attenborough thread at CMI's Facebook page, the moderators are encouraging critical thinking:
"SH Not a fact whatsoever. Do some more research on our website before posting such blatant nonsense again. (post hidden)".

Just Another Day for people on the wrong side of science as well as history.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:32 am

A YEC cosmologist reacts to the cosmic inflation/gravitational waves news story:
http://crev.info/2014/03/has-cosmic-inf ... iscovered/
But PRETENDS that should these detected signals of B-mode polarization in the cosmic microwave background be confirmed then - despite the fact that Big Bang theory has apparently been PREDICTING this possibility for decades and that is WHY they were searching for such a signal using a telescope based in Antarctica - because of Genesis 1:1 and Job 9:8 young Earth creationist fundamentalists should suddenly start proclaiming "Why wouldn’t a supernatural event like that leave footprints in natural signals?" And he also claims, in a manner that I admit I cannot make sense of, that "inflation is tantamount to a miracle" and therefore the announcement "gives no support to naturalism".

Science has predictions.

Young Earth creationism has excuses, evasions, unsupported claims, reading things into scripture that are not there (despite their condemnation of other Christians who accept science for being unbiblical), and Ad hoc attempted rationalisations and 'lines to take'.
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Answers in Genesis and TQEP join in the denials!

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:08 am

Some ignorant bigot pretending to be clever and wise (not sure whether it is Cowboy Bob or some other arrogant fool) has posted the following at the Georgia Purdom facebook page:
"(sigh) Here we go again. Evolutionists (and especially their press!) running off at the mouth before something has been thoroughly examined. Wasn't that Higgs boson supposed to be "proof" that the universe could come into existence without God? That quietly faded."
It's all a conspiracy! Scientists are rushing to have their media allies publish more anti-Genesis 'stories'! They are failing to examine things properly! They are just making things up! It's just another 'Higgs Boson' type error!

Meanwhile Purdom wants us to read THIS. So I did.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... een-proved
Faulkner provides a number of paragraphs of factual information. Followed by one rushed paragraph of LIES:
"First, this announcement may be improperly understood and reported. For instance, in 2003 proof for cosmic inflation was incorrectly reported and a similar erroneous claim was made last year. Second, the predictions that are being supposedly confirmed are very model-dependent: if the model changes, then the predictions change. Inflation is just one of many free parameters that cosmologists have at their disposal within the big bang model, so they can alter these parameters at will to get the intended result. Third, other mechanisms could mimic the signal being claimed today. So, even if the data are confirmed, there may be some other physical mechanism at play rather than cosmic inflation."

How to 'refute' inconvenient pesky science, in order to insist that Genesis is 'scientific'? Complain that if findings appear to confirm predictions of a scientific model, then NEVER MIND THAT because scientists keep on changing their models anyway... (And make sure you use the word 'supposedly' as often as you possibly can - in order to imply to biased fundie readers that "scientists are god-hating liars".)

I am not accepting Faulkner's invitation to DECEIVE MYSELF using illogical and half-baked arguments.

He claims 'other mechanisms' might mimic the signal that has been detected. What might those be? He does not tell us.

The sound of young earth creationists polarising opinions and bending facts maybe?

Rather at odds with the conclusions of fellow YEC astronomer Coppedge reported above.

Jason Lisle does not appear to have broken cover yet on the story ... nor Bill Nye for that matter.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:35 am

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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:35 am

PS I had a virus removed from my pc a week ago. But since then I have had trouble editing and (just now) deleting a (temporary) post on this community forum (it was saved here after I found I would have to re-boot before I could, hopefully, successfully send an email from the totally unreliable O2 website). In the end I found I COULD delete the post I wanted to remove after all - but I thought I should mention the recent problem in case it is affecting others as well. If not, I can probably get by.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:41 am

This blog post is somewhat cautious (more so than the report on the Channel 4 News TV programme):
http://blogs.channel4.com/tom-clarke-on ... g-bang/815
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:42 am

The AiG website claims that 'creation science' confirms that the Bible is true.

However, that is a false statement since 'creation science' is NOT science but is kneejerk, dogmatic, science DENIAL (dressed up as legitimate scepticism). As the latest pathetic article by Danny Faulkner about the claimed cosmic inflation discovery shows.

You cannot defend Genesis against science WITHOUT lying. Young Earth creationist websites prove this to be a factual statement every SINGLE week.
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Re: Creation Ministries International frauds: just another d

Postby Brian Jordan » Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:03 am

I haven't followed the latest discovery at all closely, but I'd be surprised if the weakness of the radiation doesn't imply that the universe isn't a mere 6000 years old. So they're just omphalos gazing.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:00 pm

Brian

I cannot find the 'quote' button to quote back your comment - but I recall that the Tom Clarke blog stated: "But others are urging a bit more caution. “It’s a maybe,” said Carlos Frenk a cosmologist at the University of Durham told Channel 4 News. “When you look closely at the detail it seems as if it might have too much of a good thing.” He warns the polarization measurement the Harvard team have found is twice as large as expected. “Either something is wrong with their measurement or inflation is a lot more complicated than we think.”"

Twice as large as expected. If confirmed that must point to RECENT creation!!
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Creation Ministries International frauds: just ANOTHER day

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:29 pm

On the CMI Facebook page today. At the link to their article 'Grotesque Dinosaur Cannibals' - at which point on its page CMI make the GROTESQUE claim that: "Cannibalism in dinosaurs indicates claimed fossil age/dating needs dramatic revision".

SP: "This is ridiculous/circular reasoning by any assessment. And if you really believe the dinosaurs lived until 4,500 years ago, you really are ignoring facts, logic and rationale thinking."

CMI: "Have you considered this? http://creation.com/double-decade-dinosaur-disquiet and http://creation.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue"

CMI: "S. We're in no way misrepresenting the data. If you have a problem with the article, then submit your objections to our staff via our website. Per our rules, this is not the place for extended debate nor are links outside of creation.com allowed."

What lessons can a reasonable person (including SP one assumes) learn from this behaviour?

Creation Ministries International ARE misrepresenting data. But want their fans to believe otherwise.

But they won't let others even read the accusation in question!

Instead they try to SHUT DOWN the conversation (any further riposte by SP would probably be censored - though unlike AiG, CMI do usually admit their silly censorship).

CMI offer NO discussion forums - and merely permit either one on one private debates between themselves and their many critics. Or else offer a facebook 'fan' page where only 'respectful disagreement'' (and NOT refutation) is allowed. A page described by them as follows: "Creation Ministries International's Facebook site exists as a place for fans to come and learn more about biblical creation. We want this to be a fun and safe site to visit".

'Safe' of course means that CMI's pseudo-science must remain impregnable in the eyes of all those Christians who think it is true and reasonable! "Extended debate" - especially when someone exposes their nonsense claims about eg 'recent' dinosaurs - is 'verboten' (German for forbidden).

And YECs have the gall to claim to encourage critical thinking.
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Re: Creation Ministries International frauds: just another d

Postby Brian Jordan » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:52 pm

Oh Ashley, you shouldn't tease us so! I've followed both your links and Firefox's "find" can't seen any instance of "cann" ineither of them. Please show us where this preposterous claim can be found or stop tickling our unfossilised ribs! Why on earth does the possibility of dinosaurs eating each other rule out an old Earth? I can only imagine that they are claiming that only a limited number were created so once they'd all eaten each other they became extinct! As soon as this cafe closes, Noah's deluge begins! Or should that be a postdiluvian "come in No 27, you've eaten yourself up"?
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Creation Ministries International frauds: just another day

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:20 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:Oh Ashley, you shouldn't tease us so! I've followed both your links and Firefox's "find" can't seen any instance of "cann" ineither of them. Please show us where this preposterous claim can be found or stop tickling our unfossilised ribs! Why on earth does the possibility of dinosaurs eating each other rule out an old Earth? I can only imagine that they are claiming that only a limited number were created so once they'd all eaten each other they became extinct! As soon as this cafe closes, Noah's deluge begins! Or should that be a postdiluvian "come in No 27, you've eaten yourself up"?


I'm merely quoting from here (sorry if I forgot to add the link):
https://www.facebook.com/creationministries
It's presumably the nonsense that if they ate each other there's no evolution either, because they all co-existed, so you may as well rule out an old Earth while you are at it too. Young Earth creationist 'logic' (or do I mean zealotry).
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Re: Creation Ministries International frauds: just another d

Postby Brian Jordan » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:35 pm

Oh dear! Thanks Ashley, the article is here http://creation.com/grotesque-dinosaur-cannibals and makes very little sense. It appears to be saying that cannibalism is sin and death and so cannot have occurred before the Fall transformed dinosaurs from vegetarians. I.e. before Adam. Therefor not more than 6000 years ago. Q.E.D.
An epic fail, I think.
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Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:48 pm

http://www.icr.org/article/8031/
"So, we are now being told that the CMB radiation proves inflation, even though we were informed just last year that it is also apparently inconsistent with inflation."
So does Jake Hebert have an explanation of this? Does his trust in the scientific accuracy of the book of Genesis help him draw up a better scientific explanation of what scientists have observed?
"So what did cause the CMB? That's an open question. But since the CMB data are generally inconsistent with inflation (a fact quickly glossed over in Monday's announcement), it is definitely not "leftover" radiation from an alleged Big Bang."
Science is 'wrong'. That's his explanation.

EDIT - I've just caught up with a new Eye on the ICR post on this topic.
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YECs still detest the Big Bang theory

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue May 13, 2014 10:46 pm

http://crev.info/2014/05/big-bank-break ... -be-false/ 'Big Bang breakthrough may be false'.
"It was supposed to be a shoo-in for a Nobel Prize, but the shoe may not fit. Science Magazine and other sites have announced a potential fatal flaw in the March announcement that a signal confirming cosmic inflation (3/17/14) was detected from the Antarctic instrument site. In “Blockbuster Big Bang Result May Fizzle, Rumor Suggests,” Science Now explains that a crucial factor, foreground microwave “noise,” may not have been subtracted out properly."

This is what he's referring to:
http://news.sciencemag.org/physics/2014 ... r-suggests
"The biggest discovery in cosmology in a decade could turn out to be an experimental artifact—at least according to an Internet rumor. The team that reported the discovery is sticking by its work, however";
"Many researchers had been awaiting Planck's own mapping of the polarization of the CMB, which the Planck team intends to release in October, to see if it reproduces the BICEP result. Now, however, they may be waiting as anxiously to see Planck's final map of the galactic foreground, due out at the same time, as it could make the BICEP signal go away."
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