The origins of modern YECism and "the Genesis flood"

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The origins of modern YECism and "the Genesis flood"

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:20 pm

Strangely, I've had rather a lengthy spat with William Crawly on his Facebook page in relation to one of today's Sunday sequence topics with his guest, historian David Livingstone.

The subject of today was "is the rejection of "Darwinism" related to cultural background ?"

I made two points to Crawly.

(1) The term "Darwinism" is rarely, if ever used in modern day science. It's use is generally by YECs, who like to label evolution as a religion (I've never heard scientists use it). Darwinian evolution is used, but that's a different matter entirely.

(2) Modern YECism (as we know it today) is really a recent phenomenon in evangelical Protestantism which started with the publication of the Genesis flood by Morris and Whitcomb in the early 1960's. In the early 20th century, most Protestant theologians (e.g. Hodge, Warfield) either accepted geological time, or geological time and evolution. Ideas such as the gap theory were the norm. I made the point that even William Jennings Bryan accepted geological time (as far as I'm aware) and today would be labelled an old Earth compromiser by the likes of Ham and Sarfati. I also pointed out the origins of YECism began with George McCready Price and Seventh Day Adventism.

At this point Crawly became somewhat ratty and threatened to block me (he's still ranting on about blocking people on his Facebook page today), claiming I was way off topic, wrong on my ideas about the origins of modern YECism, and suggested I should read Ronald Numbers' book "the creationists". I subsequently showed him an extract from Numbers' book which agrees with what I was saying.

I really wasn't sure what Crawly was on about, but I get the impression he's somewhat clueless about YECism in general, and the term "Darwinism". He claimed Hodge was no darwinist, but Hodge accepted geological time and/or evolution. Ham labels him as a compromiser in one of his talks.

I've yet to listen to today's Sunday Sequence, but I've never seen Crawly get nasty like this.
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Re: The origins of modern YECism and "the Genesis flood"

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:50 pm

Goodness Peter, I thought Crawly had little time for creationists. Has he melted under the pressure of their avalanche of nonsense?
Michael has neatly summarised the roots of this avalanche on his blog:http://michaelroberts4004.wordpress.com/2014/06/16/creationism-in-british-schools/
Crawley would be well advised to read it, it seems.
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Re: The origins of modern YECism and "the Genesis flood"

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:03 pm

Brian Jordan wrote:Goodness Peter, I thought Crawly had little time for creationists. Has he melted under the pressure of their avalanche of nonsense?
Michael has neatly summarised the roots of this avalanche on his blog:http://michaelroberts4004.wordpress.com/2014/06/16/creationism-in-british-schools/
Crawley would be well advised to read it, it seems.


I've no idea what point Crawly was trying to prove Brian or why he became so agitated. Maybe he just doesn't like being told he's wrong.

I'm tempted to put that blog entry by Michael on his Facebook page, but he'll probably block me and claim I'm a troll who's spamming.

I must have a listen to what David Livingstone said.

Thinking back now, I should have made the point that Lyell rejected Darwin's ideas until near the end of his life. Kelvin point blankly refused to accept evolution at all, though he believed in deep time. Lyell and Kelvin's position really had nothing to do with cultural background as even Darwin's ideas took a while to be accepted universally amongst his peers, especially since the age of the Earth was unknown.

I notice he's now deleted the thread claiming I was misdirecting matters, but he did mention the word "Darwinism". You can't mention the term "Darwinism" without referring to YECs, and these days it's only YECs who use it when referring to evolution.

https://www.facebook.com/wcrawley?fref=ts

What's it called when someone misunderstands your tweet then passionately responds to something you didn't actually say?


It's happening to me right now on another thread about Darwjnism. Doing my head in. I should really NOT reply.


I get this a lot: they misunderstand a tweet then troll me with misdirected arguments against a point I hadn't made. Grrrr.


My rule is to allow one misdirected response to a tweet, then if they persist after the correction, I block them. Life's too short ...


Clearly what Crawly means by "Darwinism" is entirely different to what I think the term means :(
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Re: The origins of modern YECism and "the Genesis flood"

Postby IgnoreThisTest » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:10 pm

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Re: The origins of modern YECism and "the Genesis flood"

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:47 pm

1 hr 13 minutes into the programme. A bit waffly in my opinion. and I get the impression Livingstone is merely stating the obvious:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b047czyq
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Re: The origins of modern YECism and "the Genesis flood"

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:17 pm

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