The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

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The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby Peter Henderson » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:13 am

Along with Howard Condor of Revelation TV. Might go along to the one at Whitewell:

http://www.revelationtv.com/rnews/entry/qandatour
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:20 am

I thought you meant Ian Juby! And was going to write "Lovely Juby" (instead of Lovely Jubbly for our American guests who aren't familiar with characters portrayed by David Jason).
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby Peter Henderson » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:09 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:I thought you meant Ian Juby! And was going to write "Lovely Juby" (instead of Lovely Jubbly for our American guests who aren't familiar with characters portrayed by David Jason).


Unfortunately not Ashley, though Grady McMurtry is just as bad.
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby Roger Stanyard » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:00 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:Along with Howard Condor of Revelation TV. Might go along to the one at Whitewell:

http://www.revelationtv.com/rnews/entry/qandatour


Oh dear, it appears that our intellectual superior, "Dr" Grady, dioes actually have a bona fide PhD. In fact he appears never to have been a practising scuientist. See http://www.ecalpemos.org/2008/12/dr-gra ... e-his.html

If, indeed, he is a member of MENSA, not doubt he could have got a proper PhD from a real university rather than bragging about how clever he is.
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby magnocrat » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:14 pm

We need to take care we do not equate intelligence with beliefs or morals. I expect there were many with high IQs in extremist groups of alsorts including religious believers. History should warn us of the dangers of letting such groups get into power. Education is an extremely important area where science must be mainstream proven and accepted by the vast majority of experts.
Other areas such as British Values ( I'm not sure what they are) children will need to hear all sidesinthe hope they can make their own assessment when they are ready.
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby cathy » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:35 pm

Or equate intelligence with a love of puzzles which is a better definition of Mensa. I love puzzles, doesn't make me a genius. Anybody with a genuinely high IQ who persists in the nonsense that is creationism is seriously lying to themselves.
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby magnocrat » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:45 am

cathy wrote:Or equate intelligence with a love of puzzles which is a better definition of Mensa. I love puzzles, doesn't make me a genius. Anybody with a genuinely high IQ who persists in the nonsense that is creationism is seriously lying to themselves.

The IQ is an accepted estimation of intelligence; it produces a bell curve with 50% below the norm of IQ 100. My own IQ is about 105 slightly above average. It would indeed be nice if your premise about high IQ were correct but it is wrong. Intelligent evil is real and misguided intelligence is common. Intelligence is not the golden calf to a perfect world. Moral rectitude is our guide.
Sam Harris the well known atheist wrote ' The Moral Landscape' for that very reason.
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby Peter Henderson » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:55 pm

magnocrat wrote:
cathy wrote:Or equate intelligence with a love of puzzles which is a better definition of Mensa. I love puzzles, doesn't make me a genius. Anybody with a genuinely high IQ who persists in the nonsense that is creationism is seriously lying to themselves.

The IQ is an accepted estimation of intelligence; it produces a bell curve with 50% below the norm of IQ 100. My own IQ is about 105 slightly above average. It would indeed be nice if your premise about high IQ were correct but it is wrong. Intelligent evil is real and misguided intelligence is common. Intelligence is not the golden calf to a perfect world. Moral rectitude is our guide.
Sam Harris the well known atheist wrote ' The Moral Landscape' for that very reason.


The IQ test was used for many years in Northern Ireland as a basis for academic selection.

Interestingly, many people who ended up in secondary schools did better than those in grammar schools, and vice versa

Professor Jocelyn Bell Burnell is a good example. Although she didn't go to a secondary school, she did fail the so called "11 plus".

I doubt she's a lifetime member of "MENSA".
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby Brian Jordan » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:29 pm

magnocrat wrote:The IQ is an accepted estimation of intelligence; it produces a bell curve with 50% below the norm of IQ 100.
It may be necessary for an "accepted" test to produce such a bell curve, but the curve it itself means little. It simply shows that what is measured follows a "normal" distribution and could equally well apply to children's height or shoe size, or even to the size of bananas.
Edit to add:
The "norm of 100" btw merely signifies an arbitrary number assigned to the peak/median of the curve. It's a relative, not an absolute. measure of intelligence. The 100 point for a three year old would indicate a very different puzzle-solving ability from that of its similarly rated parent. </pedantry>
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby magnocrat » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:44 pm

I do not know if you belong to those who believe with hard work anyone can achieve anything but this is an error that has its origin in the modern attitude to education. There is such a thing as ability and the best measure of this is IQ. Let me be clear I'm not a supporter of eugenics, intelligence is just one measure of the human person, a high IQ does not make you anymore valuble as a person. I could never have become a neuclear phyisist any more than a second Mozart.
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby cathy » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:09 am

Whilst if agree there are innate differences, IQ is a complex mix of nature and nurture and the bell curve produced is not fixed in place. Tho the actual bell shape of the curve never changes it can shift up or down relative to itself. A score of 100 today is different to a score of 100 years ago. For example due to the curve shifting your IQ today would be higher 100 years ago. Which suggests a situation component. Countries undergoing rapid technological advances show the fastest shifts. Kids starting from the same point in childhood can end up at different points later on in life. Due to circumstances. Adult IQ tests may be a different matter but having taught in grammar schools and comprehensives I'm wary of tests that seem to be based as much on emotional maturity as IQ.

But I do agree evil geniuses do exist and there are clever creationists with high IQd. Which makes them 100% liars and con artists. The Mensa Guy is one!!
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby magnocrat » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:56 pm

Thanks for your reply and detail. In my own case mine is an adult IQ so fairly constant. The point of IQ is to eliminate nurture and investigate nature hence it cannot rely on anything that is taught.
It is a very clever way of seeing what our potential abilities might be. I agree that children may still have developing minds and may not have reached their final potential.
I know you will not take offence if I say you must not imply other peoples opinions cannot be genuine. That intelligent people believe in God is not surprising. Remember intelligent people believed in eugenics and Charles Darwin himself believed women's intelligence was far inferior to mans. That fault in the great biologist does not make me reject his incredible work. Faultlessness is not a human quality.
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby cathy » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:29 pm

The fact that the IQ scores of a population follow a normal distribution curve is evidence of nature and some kind of inate ability. The fact that whole curve can shift left or right relative to itself is evidence you cannot wipe out the effects of nurture. You also can't argue that IQ is fixed since it's been shown to fluctuate with the effects of nurture. If two people have the same IQ at 16 and only one stays in education to degree level you will find by 30 their IQ will be higher. You cannot go beyond some kind of limit but you can certainly stretch what is there up or down a few points.

I think it is difficult to accept that the opinions of someone clever enough to understand the evidence for evolution could then honestly believe the nonsense about creation 'science'. I think a clever person rejecting evolution honestly is different to the creation 'scientists'. The person that says they understand all the evidence for evolution but do not accept it on personal grounds is holding a genuine opinion. The clever person that pushes the creation science nonsense has to be dishonest because they will know it is wrong in every sense. Sadly I've yet to meet a creationist from the former camp. One that is honest. The clever ones fall into the con man camp.
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby magnocrat » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:25 pm

Some Christians and other religeous people have great difficulty with science because it makes theuncomfortable. Rather than abandon their faith they will clutch at straws and seek to amalgamate the two explanations. I understand that position. Richard Dawkins in his 'Blind Watchmaker confesses that had he been born before ' The Origin of Species ' he would have been a believer. Reading his exellent but difficult book carefully I get the feeling he is unhappy that evolution is the truth. Such a brilliant man cannot help but let his feelings out , thats what makes him so readable.
IQ was a noble attempt to provide a test that works irrespective of background race age ect.
It may fail in some cases but how can we replace it or improve it.
I am a believer in education , mine was rather poor and short, but knowledge to serve the community not for its own sake. Sam Harris suggested we might use well- being as a moral yardstick. It seems a pretty good suggestion. Let me say somethings Sam says are hard to swollow for example he believes free will and the Self are an illusion.
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Re: The MENSA guy is coming to a town near you

Postby cathy » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:55 pm

Some religious people do, most don't. Most are quite happy to acknowledge science as Gods methodology if they believe. I used to be a Christian now I'm an atheist. Never been uncomfortable with science either way, tho wasn't thrilled withA level physics. But that had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with frustration at exam boards obsessions with rulers hanging off springs.

I doubt Richard Dawkins is unhappy with the fact we evolved. Why would he? Why would anyone? Would have to disagree with you about the readability of Dawkins. I find him dull, repetitive and patronising. Try Simon Singh, Paul Bratermsn (whose bcse person as well), Brian Cox, Paul Davies or even Bill Bryson. All way better then Dawkins.


I'm afraid I'm not a fan of the old guard of atheists like Harris and Dawkins myself. Too like the religious fundies when it comes to seeing everything thru the polarising goggles of goodies and baddies. Too simplistic in their analysis of reality and outside of science they ignore evidence and uncomfortable facts. Life ain't that simple.
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