Conscience-based opt out from Human-Rights Legislation

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Conscience-based opt out from Human-Rights Legislation

Postby jon_12091 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:14 pm

Apparently something under consideration in NI at the moment (though I wouldn't put it past the Conservatives or UKIP to think about something similar). It seems to centered around honestly held religious beliefs' and while it doesn't seem to directly pertain to creationism I can't help but think they could find ways to 'make hay' if such legislation was passed.

I'm assuming Peter knows something more of the background this...
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Re: Conscience-based opt out from Human-Rights Legislation

Postby Peter Henderson » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:14 pm

This is connected to the Asher's bakery case Jon.

You may or may not be familiar with it. Last year a local gay rights activist asked Ashers bakery to bake a cake with the slogan "I support gay marriage", along with two figurines of Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street holding hands and dressed in wedding suits.

Ashers bakery is run by Christians, so naturally they refused to put the slogan on the cake (though they had no problem supplying it).

Covered on Nolan Live, BBC1 NI last Tuesday:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... -episode-2

The proposal wont go through because Sinn Féin have raised a petition of concern in the Assembly. It was proposed by DUP MLA Paul Givan.

You may remember Paul Givan as the councillor who attempted to have YECism and intelligent design taught in schools in the borough of Lisburn when he was a member of Lisburn Borough Council:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGF2AxlQsYE
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Re: Conscience-based opt out from Human-Rights Legislation

Postby jon_12091 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:10 pm

I heard about the bakery case and picked up on Paul Givan's name - I thought it rang a bell. Its clear that he like the idea of puting 'special interest group' loopholes into legislation...
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Re: Conscience-based opt out from Human-Rights Legislation

Postby Peter Henderson » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:55 pm

jon_12091 wrote:I heard about the bakery case and picked up on Paul Givan's name - I thought it rang a bell. Its clear that he like the idea of puting 'special interest group' loopholes into legislation...


He also attempted to push through a clause in the criminal justice act along with the SDLP's Alban Maginness, which in effect would have recriminalized abortion in the few circumstances when it is legal here. Sinn Féin again raised a petition of concern which stopped the motion even being debated:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21709421

The Catholic Bishops are backing Paul Givan on the conscience clause bill:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-31596699
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Re: Conscience-based opt out from Human-Rights Legislation

Postby cathy » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:42 pm

Hmm just reading Savita - the tragedy that shook a nation and am mighty sick of the ultra religious putting their noses in to human rights legislation.

The cake one is a funny one tho - only cos I wondered what is do if asked to make a UKIP cake.
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Re: Conscience-based opt out from Human-Rights Legislation

Postby Peter Henderson » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:11 pm

cathy wrote:Hmm just reading Savita - the tragedy that shook a nation and am mighty sick of the ultra religious putting their noses in to human rights legislation.

The cake one is a funny one tho - only cos I wondered what is do if asked to make a UKIP cake.


The book looks like a good read Cathy, though I can't see the situation on abortion law in Ireland changing any time soon in either jurisdiction.

Did you watch the UKIPPERS on BBC 2 on Sunday evening ? The party activists came over as a bunch of weirdos, but maybe all political activists in English politics are like that.
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Re: Conscience-based opt out from Human-Rights Legislation

Postby cathy » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:43 pm

Interesting but very distressing read Peter. I'd recommend it if only to remind yourself of why religion should be divorced from the state and personal and medical choices be made wrt best practice not the dogma of old misogynists.

Interesting from historical perspective. Learnt a bit about how things had got to that state. And politically. And interesting that a lot of the anti abortion groups funding came from the US. And how, even in the face of tragedy, the RCC were putting spin on things to suit. Concentrating on the catalogue of failures in treating the sepsis rather than the fact it should never have been allowed to develop in the first place. The really weird mentality thing that I couldn't understand in their prevaricating and refusing to give over things like risk of suicide was how they didn't seem to ever appreciate that life of a foetus is dependent on the survival of the mother anyway. It almost sounds like they'd rather let dogma kill the mother and therefore also the foetus than save the mother! Which Surely is abortion by being anti abortion anyway.

Didn't see the UKIP thing. Have recorded it but will need a good bottle of wine before can handle it :( ever fearful they're in with a chance.
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Re: Conscience-based opt out from Human-Rights Legislation

Postby Peter Henderson » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:24 am

The one thing I can't understand is how the evangelical Protestant churches have become mixed up in the more extreme Catholic pro life position. As I have said before, it wasn't always like this and the idea that you're a "person" from conception to death was more of a Catholic position. I distinctly remember Norman Nevin stating that abortion in some circumstances was the lesser of two evils. No way would he get away with that position now, but that was way back in the early 1990's.

The UKIPPERS was very revealing Cathy, and I honestly don't know why any sane person would vote for them. Why they are so popular is beyond me. The woman who made the racist comments came over exactly like the character in little Britain who threw up at the mere mention of an ethnic minority.
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