Atheist Ireland dissociates itself from P.Z.Myers.

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Atheist Ireland dissociates itself from P.Z.Myers.

Postby Peter Henderson » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:36 am

Myers appears to have annoyed more of his fellow Atheists:

Atheist Ireland publicly dissociates itself from the harmful and hateful rhetoric of PZ Myers

http://atheist.ie/2015/04/atheist-irela ... -pz-myers/


Not good.

The YECs are bound to make a bit of mileage out of this as well.
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Re: Atheist Ireland dissociates itself from P.Z.Myers.

Postby cathy » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:00 am

Not good at all. PZ Myers is the only one of the high profile atheist mob that is grounded in some kind of reality. Tho not always. He's certainly the only female friendly one. And the first to recognise Dawkins as basically an old fashioned unreconstructed sexist. He's rhetoric isn't harmful it's usually honest. I guess they're too in thrall to Dawkins? Tho it's hard to warm to any of them if I'm honest. They seem to be increasingly divorced from reality and detailed understanding of what's happening in the world. Dawkins site has belatedly cleaned up its act regarding sexism but bit too late.
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Re: Atheist Ireland dissociates itself from P.Z.Myers.

Postby Brian Jordan » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:46 pm

Peter Henderson wrote:Myers appears to have annoyed more of his fellow Atheists:

Atheist Ireland publicly dissociates itself from the harmful and hateful rhetoric of PZ Myers
Goodness me, what a diatribe! I haven't read much of PZ in the past year and much of that is unfamiliar. It's sad but true that such rhetoric is not uncommon on USA forums: I recall a few years back on the Dawkins form that fofensive language was considered a necessary part of "coming out" as an atheist and showing that you didn't care in conservative America.
The reported part of the diatribe, stripped of obvious rhetoric (did they not notice that?) and cppulatory and auto-copulatory references and accusations, would still be too long to consider in detail but does still make it sound as though, while Dawkins has gone off rather, PZ has gone over the edge!
I wonder, though, whether the "final straw" was not so much the "smearing" of Ayaan Hirsi Ali as the describing of the Atheist Ireland "chairperson" in masturbatory terms! I don't think I have the energy to follow up their complaints about PZ's past deeds and it certainly doesn't encourage me to rush to his blog again.
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Re: Atheist Ireland dissociates itself from P.Z.Myers.

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:24 am

Brian Jordan wrote:
Peter Henderson wrote:Myers appears to have annoyed more of his fellow Atheists:

Atheist Ireland publicly dissociates itself from the harmful and hateful rhetoric of PZ Myers
Goodness me, what a diatribe! I haven't read much of PZ in the past year and much of that is unfamiliar. It's sad but true that such rhetoric is not uncommon on USA forums: I recall a few years back on the Dawkins form that fofensive language was considered a necessary part of "coming out" as an atheist and showing that you didn't care in conservative America.
The reported part of the diatribe, stripped of obvious rhetoric (did they not notice that?) and cppulatory and auto-copulatory references and accusations, would still be too long to consider in detail but does still make it sound as though, while Dawkins has gone off rather, PZ has gone over the edge!
I wonder, though, whether the "final straw" was not so much the "smearing" of Ayaan Hirsi Ali as the describing of the Atheist Ireland "chairperson" in masturbatory terms! I don't think I have the energy to follow up their complaints about PZ's past deeds and it certainly doesn't encourage me to rush to his blog again.



There's a culture thing here Brian. I get the same problem in what I do for my normal job. Basically there is a certain sort of American who knows it all, never admits to being wrong (they can't stand the loss of face) and whose idea of debate is to shout very loudly as to how wonderful they are. Naturally everyone they disagree with is stupid/ignorant/biased or whatever.

Alas the traits are common amongst "professional" people. I've just been looking at the output of the American Enterprise Institute (that's the one that gave us the neocons). Evidence and data are used solely to push their ideological agenda so their alledgely scholarly work is riddled with errors and outright deception.

BTW The Discovery Institute is just as bad. Believe it or not it is now lecturing Germany on the latter's policies towards broadband Internet. Apparently its not free market enough even though Germans get higher broadband speeds at lower prices than Americans. Germans get their cable TV dirt cheap as well; at around Euros 17 a month compared to US$123 a month charged on average by US cable companies. The Disco Kids think this is all to do with German communism or some such fantasy of ideologues.
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
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Re: Atheist Ireland dissociates itself from P.Z.Myers.

Postby cathy » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:57 pm

So what exactly has happened to lead up to this? Concisely if poss? I'm well out of the atheist loop given I was finding their forums about as impressive as the creationist ones.

Last I saw was PZ calling Dawikns and his pals out on charges of sexism. Which, to be honest were not unfounded given Dawkins advice to women not to go out and get drunk if they didn't want to get raped. Which struck me as not that far removed from suggesting wearing a burkha to avoid being raped. If some of his comments has been made by an imam or priest he'd be the first in line to complain. Even when I checked it in context it was no better!

So what I last heard of PZ was what seemed a fairly reasonable defence of Rebecca Watson in the face of Dawkins mad rant about Muslim women. Bizarre response to what looked like generic comment about unnamed guy in very, very specific situation that had nothing to do with anything else. Showed Dawkins at best to be someone completely ignorant of the real world and women. And a bizarrely overgeneralisation and patronising of Muslim women too.

So I've not really heard much of late. Dawkins lauding racist thugs for smearing bacon inside Scottish Mosques and being a general ignorant knob about reality was last time I bothered with reading anything attached to his name.

What's PZ said about Hirsi Ali? And more importantly, in what context? Is it justified?

And is he justified in what he said about atheism Ireland? I'd like to hear from people whose opinions I trust cos from what little I've seen, and it's hardly anything - certainly not sufficient to make an informed judgement - I prefer PZ to Dawkins any day. But that isn't praise cos it's on a par with preferring Cameron to Farage. A hobsons choice. And it isn't informed because tho I've seen enough if Dawkins to write him off as ignorant I know next to nothing about PZ other than he's right about Dawkins and women.
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