Alice Roberts weighs in.

All are welcome to this forum, which is for debating the teaching of creationism or intelligent design in schools. This forum can be boisterous, and you should not participate if easily offended.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby Brian Jordan » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:49 pm

On reflection, he's maybe motivated by the scandal of the Jewish faith school that censored an A-level paper by blacking-out questions regarding evolution. If so, he made an even poorer fist of justifying it.
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
User avatar
Brian Jordan
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby a_haworthroberts » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:26 pm

This piece of propaganda was a long time coming. Though they still lay it on thick.
http://creation.com/attack-on-creation-in-schools
These people think they can believe nonsensical things and people should roll over and applaud. Or maybe it's that God wants them to be intellectually persecuted so they can spend all their time whinging and declaring how terrible and 'aggressively intolerant' everybody else is for believing that what should be taught in science is not half-baked religion.
"The increasing censorship of creationism from any scientific discussion should raise the eyebrows of any rational thinking person". But instead it raises the eyebrows of lying science deniers like Phil Robinson (PE teacher).
a_haworthroberts
 
Posts: 9075
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:49 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:35 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:This piece of propaganda was a long time coming. Though they still lay it on thick.
http://creation.com/attack-on-creation-in-schools
These people think they can believe nonsensical things and people should roll over and applaud. Or maybe it's that God wants them to be intellectually persecuted so they can spend all their time whinging and declaring how terrible and 'aggressively intolerant' everybody else is for believing that what should be taught in science is not half-baked religion.
"The increasing censorship of creationism from any scientific discussion should raise the eyebrows of any rational thinking person". But instead it raises the eyebrows of lying science deniers like Phil Robinson (PE teacher).


Indeed Ashley, from someone with no science qualifications whatsoever.

Robinson is attempting to make it out that it's an attack on Christianity in general, and neglects to mention throughout the article that many Christians accept science and reject "biblical creation", which appears to be nothing more than another term for YECism and a subtle attempt to equate it with Christianity in general (i.e. if you are against biblical creation you reject Christianity).
Peter Henderson
 
Posts: 4354
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:07 pm
Location: Jordanstown, Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland

Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby Roger Stanyard » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:54 pm

a_haworthroberts wrote:This piece of propaganda was a long time coming. Though they still lay it on thick.
http://creation.com/attack-on-creation-in-schools
These people think they can believe nonsensical things and people should roll over and applaud. Or maybe it's that God wants them to be intellectually persecuted so they can spend all their time whinging and declaring how terrible and 'aggressively intolerant' everybody else is for believing that what should be taught in science is not half-baked religion.
"The increasing censorship of creationism from any scientific discussion should raise the eyebrows of any rational thinking person". But instead it raises the eyebrows of lying science deniers like Phil Robinson (PE teacher).


Oh dear, "Corporal" Phil Robinson on education again. I wonder why he doesn't promote "creationism" in Catholic schools in Northern Ireland or schools in the Republic of Ireland?

Edit: the mind boggles as to how "The Corporal" would sell his creationism in the Republic of Ireland. See these clips for some wit from RTE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEm-zzw4FmE

and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMgVxh-eOMo
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
User avatar
Roger Stanyard
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby Peter Henderson » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:23 pm

or schools in the Republic of Ireland?


He's been to C of I schools in the Republic of Ireland Roger, if I remember correctly.

Robinson has also gained access to a "high school" in Co. Down, but C.O.M. don't say where and when the event's taking place.

In fact, they appear to be keeping all their events pretty much secret, for some odd reason:

http://www.creationoutreachministries.com/com/events/

High School, County Down

March 2014

Speaker : Phil Robinson
Peter Henderson
 
Posts: 4354
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:07 pm
Location: Jordanstown, Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland

Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby cathy » Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:57 pm

Oh dear, "Corporal" Phil Robinson on education again. I wonder why he doesn't promote "creationism" in Catholic schools in Northern Ireland or schools in the Republic of Ireland?


Now that would be interesting. Last time I was over there I was given the impression that there was a marked move away from RC schools to more secular state run ones. Tho it looked to me like the place was still full of convents and my aunties next door neighbour (teacher) said his school was still catholic - then again it was also gaelic speaking. The other huge difference between now and when I was dragged over there as a child was the absence of nuns and priests all over the place. They were loads when I was little, I don't think I saw any.

The RC churches are apparently empty now, compared to when I was little, and by all accounts according to relatives, the abuse scandals and the baby selling scandals has hit them hard with younger parishioners.

I'm not sure what happens when a formerly religious country like the ROI moves away from its root religion? Will it be secularism or will it become a breeding ground for morons like Phil and the CMI mob?
cathy
 
Posts: 3665
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:51 pm
Location: Redditch

Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby Brian Jordan » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:04 pm

cathy wrote:I'm not sure what happens when a formerly religious country like the ROI moves away from its root religion? Will it be secularism or will it become a breeding ground for morons like Phil and the CMI mob?
Well, they say nature abhors a vacuum - but can creationist vacuity fill a vacuum?
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
User avatar
Brian Jordan
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:36 am

Phil Robinson seems to approve of Cowboy Bob.

https://www.facebook.com/creationministries (see the discussion of his article)
"Hi Cowboy Bob, ( The Question Evolution Project ) - I was googling a picture to use with the article, yours popped up, I really liked it, and put it forward to be used. I think it complimented the article really well. Thanks and every blessing, Phil". (Replying to the Cowboy himself.)

The caption on the picture, in an attempt to misrepresent critics of creationism, reads:
"We teach you how to think critically and examine evidence.
Except for evolution. We will tell you WHAT to think. And don't ask embarrassing questions."

Sums up how CMI approach science.

Lie, lie and lie again. Misdirect people until Jesus returns or they die first.

I would invite young Earth creationists reading this to look at the arguments FOR it AS WELL AS the arguments showing it to be complete codswallop. (The latter, as written by non-YECs or ex-YECs, NOT YEC claimed rebuttals of the latter.)

Of course students should be urged to look at the evidence for AND against each element in the Periodic Table having a different number of protons mustn't they? We should not ever tell science students WHAT to think.
a_haworthroberts
 
Posts: 9075
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:49 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby Roger Stanyard » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:07 pm

cathy wrote:

I'm not sure what happens when a formerly religious country like the ROI moves away from its root religion? Will it be secularism or will it become a breeding ground for morons like Phil and the CMI mob?


One of the big reasons why the US religious right is so paranoid is that public opinion and demographics are turning against them; the USA seems to be following the same route as pretty well all developed countries (albeit late), in moving towards secularism. The Republic of Ireland is, of course, also following that trend.

I strongly doubt if The Corporal could ever make any signficant impact within the Republic. Calvinists have over 450 years of failure there.
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
User avatar
Roger Stanyard
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re:

Postby a_haworthroberts » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:11 pm

A perhaps surprising number of the more bigoted comments under this bigoted article have been made by people (who only divulge their initials) who are based in the UK.

http://creation.com/attack-on-creation-in-schools
a_haworthroberts
 
Posts: 9075
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:49 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby a_haworthroberts » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:38 am

The ANONYMOUS author of this would like to pretend that young earth creationists are 'open minded'. That is the last thing they are (as Ken Ham recently helpfully confirmed in his high profile debate).
http://www.truthinscience.org.uk/tis2/i ... ation.html

"Should children be denied the opportunity of exploring any alternative to evolutionary theory?" As far as SCIENCE is concerned there isn't one. As Ken Ham helpfully confirmed at the recent debate - where he claimed to offer successful predictions by biblical creationism but failed dismally.

"Since when has it been in the interests of scientific endeavour to silence debate?" Since we understood what an individual chemical element IS, and IS NOT, maybe? Or since we discovered that Earth is an oblate spheroid (and even most Bible fundamentalists accepted that previous religiously prompted viewpoints about the shape of the Earth had been wrong)?

Besides there remains PLENTY of - legitimate and ongoing - debate within science still.

Of course few would object to kids being taught about the unrealised claims (positive and negative) that are made by biblical creationists - within religious education. But creationism should be banned from science lessons because it is a perversion of science and the scientific method.

Education is not about avoiding possible alienation of religious kids, it is about INFORMATION.
a_haworthroberts
 
Posts: 9075
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:49 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby cathy » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:07 pm

Ah yes Ashley, the old 'should children be denied the opportunity of exploring alternatives to evolution' line. A classic, to which there are many response. For example why are children denied the opportunity of exploring alternatives to gravity - intelligent falling for example. Why are children denied the opportunity to explore the alternatives to friction forces, or redox reactions, or electricity. The list is endless, Richard the III being king of England - no alternatives allowed. Henry VIII having six wives - no alternatives allowed. WWI occurring between 1914 and 1918 - no alternatives allowed. Surely that one could be much improved by coming up with some alternatives. Why are children not allowed to discuss it and see if any other dates are preferable. We could replace the four years with an alternative six month first world war - far less to study and fewer people could have died. But alas no - no alternatives are allowed!

What about France being the size, shape and location that it is? You've guessed it - no alternatives allowed. And, just as the sad children of creationists could be put off science by the fact no alternatives to reality are allowed, I was put off geography for life aged 11 by the fact that my better France (slightly smaller than Wales and just underneath County Cork) was not allowed. Yet my France fitted neatly onto one page, hence my alternatives which were NOT allowed. I should have just drawn a smaller UK, no discussions, no open minded geography teachers - no alternatives allowed. So I do have some sympathy with TiS on that.

Poor creationists seem to be underselling the lack of alternatives in education. Why do they limit themselves to just singling out things like evolution and the age of the earth when there is so much that children are taught with no opportunities of exploring alternatives. Why I do believe mine were taught about airplanes and how they fly with no opportunity to explore the alternatives of them being carried by thousands of invisible fairies.

There is no evidence for these invisible fairies I hear you cry and tons of evidence for what they were taught. But I say conspiracy. A massive conspiracy of scientists who do not wish to acknowledge the existence of fairies. And I know for a fact that there is as much evidence for airplane fairies as there is evidence for creationism and a 6000 year old earth. And I defy anyone here to disagree with that statement. In fact I know nobody here CAN disagree with that statement. Creationism or fairies - the evidence is there, you just have to lie about it.

Oh and the article does also mention the heartrending fact that not teaching creationism may well alienate the children of religious loonies and therefore it ought to be discussed lest they go off science. Well tough titty. No alternatives are a fact of life when dealing with facts. The poor unfortunate children of creationists will just have to get used to it.
cathy
 
Posts: 3665
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:51 pm
Location: Redditch

Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby Roger Stanyard » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:33 am

cathy wrote:Ah yes Ashley, the old 'should children be denied the opportunity of exploring alternatives to evolution' line. A classic, to which there are many response. For example why are children denied the opportunity of exploring alternatives to gravity - intelligent falling for example. Why are children denied the opportunity to explore the alternatives to friction forces, or redox reactions, or electricity. The list is endless, Richard the III being king of England - no alternatives allowed. Henry VIII having six wives - no alternatives allowed. WWI occurring between 1914 and 1918 - no alternatives allowed. Surely that one could be much improved by coming up with some alternatives. Why are children not allowed to discuss it and see if any other dates are preferable. We could replace the four years with an alternative six month first world war - far less to study and fewer people could have died. But alas no - no alternatives are allowed!


Re-writing everything is central to much of the religious right in the USA. Yep, they are re-writing history to meet their ideology (see David Barton) and the Bible (see Conservapedia).

Whilst we concentrate on their anti-science, the fundamentalists have moved on to a global anti-gay hate campaign. They already marked up huge "successses" in Uganda, Russsia and Latvia and appear to have been up to their necks in getting anti-gay legislation passed in the Ukraine. Next target, no dount, will be the EU which they claim is run by "homosexualists", which seems to be a catch-all phrase for anyone who doesn't accept their position on gays. It seems that the fundamentalists are pouring millons of dollars into their global anti-gay campaign.

Vlaidimir Putin has suddenly become their darling because of Russian anti-gay legislation. He's also "manly", in contrast to the "effeminate" Barak Obama. I'm not making this up.
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities - Voltaire
User avatar
Roger Stanyard
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby Brian Jordan » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:03 pm

cathy wrote:Oh and the article does also mention the heartrending fact that not teaching creationism may well alienate the children of religious loonies and therefore it ought to be discussed lest they go off science. Well tough titty. No alternatives are a fact of life when dealing with facts. The poor unfortunate children of creationists will just have to get used to it.
Ah well, they have to have enough children both brought up as creationists and yet getting science qualifications at school. Otherwise they'll run out of nutty creationist professors. :twisted:
"PPSIMMONS is an amorphous mass of stupid" - Rationalwiki
User avatar
Brian Jordan
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 4216
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 pm

Re: Alice Roberts weighs in.

Postby cathy » Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:36 pm

Interesting comment Brian. The nutty professors that are creationists are creationists by choice. That is, they had decent educations before the invention of creation 'science' and the world going mad :evil:

Now they wish to use THEIR CHOICE to reject science to confuse and bamboozle the next generation, hence denying them the choice to reject science. Because they won't have a clue having been given all the impression that any old loony tune alternative to reality is fine and facts are just a matter of opinion.

I'm not sure that science will mourn the passing of nutty professors - but it is UNFAIR in the extreme to deny children the chance to learn because their parents are idiots!! Or because of some nutty professors.

I feel so sorry for the children of creationists. I haven't seen many but the ones I have invariably end up doing badly at science, rejecting religion and quite often going slightly off the rails.
cathy
 
Posts: 3665
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:51 pm
Location: Redditch

PreviousNext

Return to Free For All

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests